R51 Slide Issue

[iquit]

maybe my point wasn't taken the way it was meant... when I buy a new pistol I expect a short break in period, but having to come up with a solution to every problem is a bit too much to expect. so far we and I am included have come up with a solution to the 7 shot not feeding with racking the slide. heck it is easy  load 6 or have the slide locked back, neither are really a fix. now the sharp edge on the rear of the slide it has only drawn blood once, but has scraped the web of my hand several times.
my real point is I think the design team at Remington could have and should have done a better job, They had a lot of time to work out the bugs it seems they didn't learn a lot from the time spent between the recall and the new issue.
it is really my fault I expected the 2nd issue to be perfection and it is far far from that. argie1891

[Texas-Mark]

I'm not disputing that there aren't some issues, but I don't understand the slide cutting thing. I just don't see how the slide can rub against ones hand if they are properly gripping the gun. And I personally have not had any issues with the grip safety biting either. I shot 200 rounds today and had zero discomfort.

The 7 round thing IMO is also just a break in thing. As I mentioned, I initially could not rack it with a full mag either. But after several  hundred rounds and keeping the mags full, I can now rack it with a full mag fairly easily. it's still not as easy as some other guns, but it doesn't hang any more now that the mag springs are broken in.

The takedown though is indeed an issue that should have been thought out a little better. If I had the time I could probably make something better than my block of wood fix. Something that fits into the chamber like one of those unloaded flags that you see come with some guns. So I agree that Remington could have done better on that.

But IMO the positives about the gun far exceed the negatives. I have a LOT of guns and the R51 is one of my favorites to shoot.

[lklawson]

Let me start by saying that I really like the feel and accuracy of the R51.  However, I have an issue with my R51 that I haven't seen posted.

When I have a full magazine (all 7 rounds) and insert the magazine while the slide is pulled back, the magazine inserts properly.  I can release the slide and the first bullet gets chambered.  Perfect!

However, if my slide is closed and I insert the magazine (with all 7 rounds), it goes in, but has a little different feel to it.  But it is still properly secured.  The issue is that under this circumstance, I cannot put the slide all the way back...maybe it goes back 1/2 to 3/4 ways.  If I drop the magazine out, the bullet (or now I'm using snap caps) will have a little mark on the top side of the bullet.  I do not have this problem if there are only 6 bullets in the magazine.  It does this for both magazines.

I've field stripped it many times to see if Pederson device is in the proper spot or if there is anything between it and the slide or if there is any signs of wear.  I don't see any issue.

Is this a problem or just normal operation?

Bonorden,
     It is not your imagination. The slide will not rack with a full loaded magazine. My fix is to leave the slide locked open, insert the magazine, pull back on the open slide and
let it slingshot back. Then, I take the magazine out, replace the seventh bullet and it is good to go. on the range, I just bite the bullet (pun intended) and shoot six times and
reload.
Blackie

This is actually pretty close to the modern method. Lock the slide back, insert a mag with one round, let the slide close, eject the empty mag and replace it with a full one.  This is because it's intended to mimic the methods used in "combat shooting."  The current pervasive theory in "combat shooting" is to shoot until the mag runs dry and locks open the slide.  Eject the empty, slap in a fresh, and manually jack the slide.  On the range, do the same thing; shoot until the firearm locks open on an empty magazine, eject the mag, insert a fresh, and jack the slide.  Most teach to jack the slide using an overhand method instead of the index-finger-and-thumb "slingshot" method because a lot of people do not have sufficient strength in the thumb and finger but can do a four-finger-to-palmheel "pinch."  One of the reasons for shooting until the mag runs dry and lock the slide to the rear is because research and experience supports the believe that most people, when under "fight or flight" stress of adrenaline dump will press the trigger until the gun stops shooting.  In other words, most people, when under "fight or flight," will fail to "count shots."  So instead of trying to train people out of that (which can be done with some folks), most training should focus on working with the common "instinctive" responses.

So for a lot of people training with one of the common "modern" methods of loading and "combat reloading," this really isn't a big issue with the gun.

Your millage, of course, may vary. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[Texas-Mark]

So for a lot of people training with one of the common "modern" methods of loading and "combat reloading," this really isn't a big issue with the gun.

The problem is if for some reason the slide does not lock back during a SD situation.  Slides not locking back on the last round for whatever reason are not unheard of. So IMO one should not train with the assumption that it will always lock back.

[lklawson]

So for a lot of people training with one of the common "modern" methods of loading and "combat reloading," this really isn't a big issue with the gun.

The problem is if for some reason the slide does not lock back during a SD situation.  Slides not locking back on the last round for whatever reason are not unheard of. So IMO one should not train with the assumption that it will always lock back.

Guaranteed to be an issue with the magazine.  Either the spring isn't strong enough to push the follower up fast enough to engage the last round hold open (LRHO) before the slide reciprocates forward or the flat on the follower which physically engages the LRHO lever is a tad too low to reach it.



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[Texas-Mark]

I agree that most of the time it is mag related. However, I have seen people have issues with the slide stop on various guns too. Either mechanical failure of the stop, or user error of thumbing it down due to a poor grip.

But the point was that the hard racking could be an issue if for some reason the slide does not lock back when you need to reload in a SD situation. That is why IMO people should never train assuming it is always going to work. Just like they should also train for other malfunctions.

But there are also two issues here. The first is that the slide is harder to rack than many guns even if no mag is inserted. The other is that a full mag will be more difficult to rack initially if the slide is forward with a full mag inserted. That second issue will get better over time as I showed in the video in the other thread. But either way, one does not want to find themselves fumbling with trying to rack the slide in a SD reload situation. So IMO people should practice racking it from a full mag with the slide forward at least some of the time.

Now if one only plans to use the gun for the range then it does not matter.

[lklawson]

Fair enough.



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[bonorden]

I'm happy for the R51 owners that are not experiencing any issues with their handgun. 

For me, field stripping the R51 wasn't that much of an issue (it could have been easier, but I knew this prior to my purchase).  However, the failure to feeds and the difficulty racking the slide were unexpected.  I gave Remington 3.5 months to fix it and they weren't able to.

After discussions, Remington has agreed to give me a refund on my R51.

[1911SHOOTER]

I'm happy for the R51 owners that are not experiencing any issues with their handgun. 

For me, field stripping the R51 wasn't that much of an issue (it could have been easier, but I knew this prior to my purchase).  However, the failure to feeds and the difficulty racking the slide were unexpected.  I gave Remington 3.5 months to fix it and they weren't able to.

After discussions, Remington has agreed to give me a refund on my R51.

Bonorden,
    l Glad you got your issue resolved.  Kudos to Remington for treating you right.
My R51 is still trucking along.  I have used up all of my spare 9MM ammo in my range bag and started buying a different brand every weekend.
So far so good.  Since I carry "Cocked and locked"  the racking the slide over a full mag was no problem.  Good luck down the road with
your future purchases.
    Me, I would have gone for a swap for another R51. But that is me.
Blackie

[oldmagnolia]

Today I received a reply back form Remington that stated "The R51 is designed to require that the slide be locked back and then a full magazine be inserted",  The reply informs me that I should not expect the pistol to function otherwise....What am I to make of this?  I sent them another email asking if the R51 was never intended for CCW but I suppose that was a silly question as I always carry with a round chambered.  I just think the individual should have the choice of one in the pipe or not.

Based on the answer I received, sending your gun in for this issue is simply a waste of time.  Good luck to all, OM

[bonorden]

Now I am really glad I quit waiting and moved on...

I am curious as why some R51s don't require this but some do (I rented one that worked either way)

[Texas-Mark]

Today I received a reply back form Remington that stated "The R51 is designed to require that the slide be locked back and then a full magazine be inserted",  The reply informs me that I should not expect the pistol to function otherwise....What am I to make of this? 

I take responses from gun companies with a grain of salt. While I have not had any problems with racking with a full mag after the mag springs took a set, several people have had good results just shaving a bit off of the bottom of the follower. Seems there is a tolerance issue and just letting the top round move down a hair more by trimming the follower can make all of the difference. Note: No need to be cutting mag springs as also suggested.


http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/less-problems/msg946

[1911SHOOTER]

Today I received a reply back form Remington that stated "The R51 is designed to require that the slide be locked back and then a full magazine be inserted",  The reply informs me that I should not expect the pistol to function otherwise....What am I to make of this?  I sent them another email asking if the R51 was never intended for CCW but I suppose that was a silly question as I always carry with a round chambered.  I just think the individual should have the choice of one in the pipe or not.

Based on the answer I received, sending your gun in for this issue is simply a waste of time.  Good luck to all, OM

Old magnolia,
     Your post is the first thing from Remington that makes a modicum of sense in the racking issue.  I looked in the Manual for the R51 (GASP!)
and on pages 16 and 17, lies the vague answer.  on page 16 para 5 and 6, it tells you to lock the slide back.  Then, way over on page 17, para 12 and 13,
(beyond my attention span) it tells you to slingshot the slide.  Nowhere does the book say, "do not rack the slide with a full magazine".
Remington could have saved a lot of us a lot of trouble with this one simple sentence. 
They finally got a great little gun going in spite of themselves.
Blackie

BTW, Never ask Remington a sensible question.  That is like herding cats!   

[1911SHOOTER]

OOPS! I meant para 11. and 12.  Only adding to the confusion here huh?
Blackie

[Tucker]

I worked at a gun range and had a few people with slides not locking back on last shots because their grip was pressing the thumbs against the side of the slide. That was enough to prevent locking back.

I've been able to rack with a full mag most times, but every now and then had trouble. Just went to locking the slide back before loading the mag and slingshotting. Never a problem doing it that way.

I have just loved the gun.  I get bit on the web of my hand when practicing my draw & shooting, like in a self-defense situation. I guess it's just the chubby hands. Maybe I need more cant on my holster.

Sadly, my slide jammed on me and I couldn't move the slide more than 1/8".  I fought it for a while and got it to budge, disassembled and recleaned it, only to have it do it again.  Kind of hard to load that way!!!  It's going back to Remington. They will also look at the low point of impact vs point of aim (8 inches low at 7 yards).  I couldn't justify returning it for that alone.  I miss it already!