Trigger Mods

[GMG/RhoVet/AFP]

 Does anyone have experience improving the "crunchy" trigger break?  It feels somewhat like crushing an aspirin tablet. . .  Sort of the opposite of "breaking a glass rod."
  The second trigger issue is over-travel.  There is not-a-chance for 'follow-through', since trigger travel stops while the aspirin tablet is still being crunched.
  This is directly related to the trigger reset probability. . .  I have had a problem with triggers reset to zero, or little over travel.  I DO sometimes fail to get a reset and am unable to discharge the next round.  . .  This could lead to a terminally embarrassing situation. . .
  I value any experience or input on this as it is the   primary reason I have not purchased  an R-51.

[lklawson]

Does anyone have experience improving the "crunchy" trigger break?  It feels somewhat like crushing an aspirin tablet. . .  Sort of the opposite of "breaking a glass rod."
  The second trigger issue is over-travel.  There is not-a-chance for 'follow-through', since trigger travel stops while the aspirin tablet is still being crunched.
  This is directly related to the trigger reset probability. . .  I have had a problem with triggers reset to zero, or little over travel.  I DO sometimes fail to get a reset and am unable to discharge the next round.  . .  This could lead to a terminally embarrassing situation. . .
  I value any experience or input on this as it is the   primary reason I have not purchased  an R-51.

My guess is that it probably will smooth out with break in.  My trigger break is pretty crisp.

Aside from that, I have never really accepted the utility of riding the trigger reset.  I understand that it can give a slight, but important, edge to competitive shooters, but I don't believe it to be all that critical in "real life" or "defensive" shooting.  It requires a great deal of training to overcome the natural reaction of letting the trigger travel all the way back out.  It also requires training to the specific firearm.  Basically you teach your unconscious skill to release the trigger only just so far, which is different from one gun to another.  And the only gain is 1/10th of a second or less.  For a defensive pistol, I just do not believe this to be the best place to focus training.

I understand that "tactile reset" and all that is important to a lot of people.  More power to them, I guess.  I just see it as having very limited practical utility.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[1911SHOOTER]

Does anyone have experience improving the "crunchy" trigger break?  It feels somewhat like crushing an aspirin tablet. . .  Sort of the opposite of "breaking a glass rod."
  The second trigger issue is over-travel.  There is not-a-chance for 'follow-through', since trigger travel stops while the aspirin tablet is still being crunched.
  This is directly related to the trigger reset probability. . .  I have had a problem with triggers reset to zero, or little over travel.  I DO sometimes fail to get a reset and am unable to discharge the next round.  . .  This could lead to a terminally embarrassing situation. . .
  I value any experience or input on this as it is the   primary reason I have not purchased  an R-51.

GMG,
     I have never relied on "Trigger Reset".  Been shooting for 70 years.  I learned the old fashioned way from my uncle, when the gun goes Bang! release the trigger and then
pull it again.
Blackie

[GMG/RhoVet/AFP]

  Thanks for the great replies.  "Unconscious training."   Good insight.
  This only happened with two weapons:  A Govt. Match .45, and my .45 after installing an adjustable trigger.  I have fired more single action (and other) pistols than I can remember.  Only a prob w/these two examples.  I directly relate the problem w/the near-total lack of travel after the break w/these two examples.  The R-51 is the only other pistol I have tried where there is little or no over-travel.  I have read magazine reviews where the tester did not get a follow-up shot. . . The tester attributed this to failure to keep the grip safety engaged . . .  I really wonder if that was the case!
  I have never tried to "ride" the trigger, but obviously HAVE been doing this to some extent.  The "mechanical feedback" referred to is what I have unconsciously been relying on.  (Having to qualify w/DA revolvers over the years may have contributed to this).
  I guess I will have to wait until I can get to a range that has a rental, to find out for sure.  Thanks again for the insight!

[Texas-Mark]

Aside from that, I have never really accepted the utility of riding the trigger reset.  I understand that it can give a slight, but important, edge to competitive shooters, but I don't believe it to be all that critical in "real life" or "defensive" shooting.  It requires a great deal of training to overcome the natural reaction of letting the trigger travel all the way back out.  It also requires training to the specific firearm.

First, my trigger is very crisp and has been so from the beginning.

I agree with the reset thing. Some people seem obsessed with it. I have too many different guns to worry about it. Like 1911shooter, I pull the trigger, release, repeat.

[George]

Trigger reset is definitely something to test for. You may say don't worry about it but it is something that has to happen if you are going to carry it. If it does not happen all the time it's a sign something is going bad or is bad. When I first got my R-51 the trigger was not the best but it slowly got worse. The trigger finally got where it would not reset at all. Called Remington about it and was told to send it in and they would look at it. Remington called back yesterday and asked where they should send my new gun! This at first made me happy they are standing by their product. I started to think about this, now I wonder if the design is so bad it can not be fixed? I have always had a lot of confidence in Remington or I would not have purchased it in the first place. 

[1911SHOOTER]

Trigger reset is definitely something to test for. You may say don't worry about it but it is something that has to happen if you are going to carry it. If it does not happen all the time it's a sign something is going bad or is bad. When I first got my R-51 the trigger was not the best but it slowly got worse. The trigger finally got where it would not reset at all. Called Remington about it and was told to send it in and they would look at it. Remington called back yesterday and asked where they should send my new gun! This at first made me happy they are standing by their product. I started to think about this, now I wonder if the design is so bad it can not be fixed? I have always had a lot of confidence in Remington or I would not have purchased it in the first place.

George,
     I have been shooting for almost 70 years,  and up until this year I had not even heard of "Trigger Re-set".   In all of those years,
I never had a gun not go BANG! because the trigger would not go forward.  I did have a 1911 that lost the sear spring due to
breakage, but that was obvious when I practiced dry firing the gun.   Call me a cantankerous old fart, but that is my opinion of this
whole reset hullabaloo.   And, opinions are like rectums, everybody has one, I know.   
Blackie.

BTW. FWIW,  I can feel a slight click when I release the trigger. 

[Texas-Mark]

Trigger reset is definitely something to test for. You may say don't worry about it but it is something that has to happen if you are going to carry it. If it does not happen all the time it's a sign something is going bad or is bad.

Of course the trigger need to reset properly. I was talking about those who obsess over how far the trigger has to move before it does reset, and how they can feel when it happens. I doubt anyone who is in a real life SD situation is going to be thinking about feeling for the reset. It may be more important for those who compete, but IMO too many people worry about it for the wrong reasons.

I have a lot of guns and have never done a trigger job on any of them. My personal philosophy is that if you can shoot a crappy trigger well, you will shoot anything well.

[GMG/RhoVet/AFP]

1.  There are any number of mechanical abnormalities and malfunctions that I have not personally experienced (broken collet bushing, sheared slide stops, squib-fires, etc. etc.).  That does NOT mean that these things never happened, or that I have no need to be aware of them (I've never been run-over by a car, but I damn sure look both ways before I step off the curb!).
2. The recoil impulse, and the force of the slide/barrel going back into battery provide motion and energy that will typically cause the trigger to reset unless the shooter has a white-knuckle death-grip on the weapon.
3. Could someone check and see if there is any "take-up" slack at the beginning of the trigger pull?  Both of the .45's I experienced a problem w/had the take-up adjusted to zero.
4. Thank you in advance for your assistance and input.  The previous post certainly raises some questions!
5.  The fact that there is a trigger stop molded or milled into the trigger guard also makes me curious. . . 

[Texas-Mark]

3. Could someone check and see if there is any "take-up" slack at the beginning of the trigger pull?  Both of the .45's I experienced a problem w/had the take-up adjusted to zero.
4. Thank you in advance for your assistance and input.  The previous post certainly raises some questions!
5.  The fact that there is a trigger stop molded or milled into the trigger guard also makes me curious. . .

3. Mine has about 1/4" of take-up (when grip safety is depressed). Then the trigger break is maybe 1/10" later. It resets at pretty much the same place it breaks.
5. I'm not sure that is actually a trigger reset stop because I can still slip a piece if paper between the trigger and the frame after it has reset which tells me there is no pressure on it, and the trigger is stopped by other mechanics..  That's not to say it won't also stop the trigger from moving farther forward depending on different tolerances.

[GMG/RhoVet/AFP]

Good info on take-up slack.  I'm pleased that the trigger stops before contacting the bump inside the trigger guard.
Looking forward to hear if the other members observe the same thing.  Greatly appreciate the input








1

[1911SHOOTER]

Good info on take-up slack.  I'm pleased that the trigger stops before contacting the bump inside the trigger guard.
Looking forward to hear if the other members observe the same thing.  Greatly appreciate the input








1

GMG,
What bump?  Are we talking about the same R51?
Blackie

[russc2542]

I don't obsess over the reset point (too eclectic of a collection to train to ride the reset) but I am aware of it. Most of my pistols have a very distinct reset and have never failed to reset (even my CCP). My R51's reset is almost invisible, implying to me that the engagement is not very positive (sure, firm, ensured) which is consistent with it not consistently resetting. Most of the times it hasn't reset is dry firing but it has also done so in live fire.

My R51 has a bit of light take-up before the break and as-much or more over-travel after the break. The hole in the trigger is about twice the size of the trigger axle it pivots on, hence the side-side slop.

I took the trigger out the other day...there's a lot of room for improvement in the design, from the location of the pivot point to the method of travel (straight (1911 style) vs arc)

[Texas-Mark]

My R51's reset is almost invisible, implying to me that the engagement is not very positive (sure, firm, ensured) which is consistent with it not consistently resetting. Most of the times it hasn't reset is dry firing but it has also done so in live fire.

How are you testing reset during dry fire? It won't reset unless the slide is racked after pulling the trigger and the trigger has to be held pulled while racking.

Note: I am only talking about checking where it resets when dry firing. Racking the slide will always reset it unless something is broken.

[russc2542]

My R51's reset is almost invisible, implying to me that the engagement is not very positive (sure, firm, ensured) which is consistent with it not consistently resetting. Most of the times it hasn't reset is dry firing but it has also done so in live fire.

How are you testing reset during dry fire? It won't reset unless the slide is racked after pulling the trigger and the trigger has to be held pulled while racking.

Note: I am only talking about checking where it resets when dry firing. Racking the slide will always reset it unless something is broken.

pull trigger with right index finger, hold trigger back, rack slide with left hand, release trigger. Dead trigger seems proportional to the softness of racking the slide and releasing the trigger.

On a related note, I had the gun apart the other day ogling the innards and somehow ended up playing with the trigger reset which I  found extremely gritty and sticky: Sometimes when I pushed it down, it didn't come back up. Boy that trigger with the disconnect down sure feels like the non-resetting trigger. after fiddling around with it for 25 minutes I tried a little lube with a needle oiler (down about an inch in the frame) and viola, most of the stick was gone. Can still feel grit and catching but at least it's mobile now.

Put 2 and 2 together: my theory is the dreaded dead-trigger is a result of the disconnect sticking down. It's less common during live fire due to the violence of firing knocking it loose and more common being gentle due to the lack of knocking it loose. I didn't exactly go looking but it seems kinda odd that I haven't seen such a simple explanation in any of the threads about it.