Purchase a Used R51?

[SCurmudgeon]

Would you purchase a used R51 - in like-new condition - from a gun shop?

Remington's limited lifetime warranty is not transferable to the second owner.

[1911SHOOTER]

Would you purchase a used R51 - in like-new condition - from a gun shop?

Remington's limited lifetime warranty is not transferable to the second owner.

SCurmudgeon,
     I would have to know the shop real well, and how they back up their sales.
Will they give a hoot if you come back or not? etc...
     Where did you see the warranty information? I cannot find it in Remington's warranty page on the web.
I would like to know if I ever see a used R51 come along.
I sent an email to Remington support, but who knows when they will get back to me.
Blackie

[SCurmudgeon]

The shop has a good reputation and I've purchased there before.  They have great service and fair prices.

Remington's website states only the positive; the limited lifetime warranty applies to the original purchaser.  However, I wanted to confirm the negative.  I called and got through to a customer service representative immediately via the 1-800 number.  She confirmed that the warranty does not transfer.

The label on the box at the shop identified it as one of the early guns that was shipped in preparation for the August 12 re-release to the public.  The piece looked as if it had barely been shot.

I will pull the trigger on an R51 some day, but I'm not ready to do so on a used one - as long as the warranty doesn't transfer.  Even though I believe most R51s function well out-of-the-box or after a break-in period, there still seem to be some lemons that need to go back to the shop.  And although I have no reason to believe that this gun at this shop is a lemon, saving a few bucks isn't worth the risk to me.

But I was just wondering how others felt about purchasing used R51s.

[Texas-Mark]

I guess it would depend on the price. Having owned one, I now know what to look for. And while Remington may not warranty it, a reputable gun shop will give a limited warranty on used guns.

[russc2542]

I guess it would depend on the price. Having owned one, I now know what to look for. And while Remington may not warranty it, a reputable gun shop will give a limited warranty on used guns.

^This.

Being mechanically inclined and having multiple firearms handy does much to alleviate such nervousness but I understand the trepidation of those in different situations. Much like how I have multiple functioning cars that I do all the work on (except tire mounting and engine machining) I have to stop and think a bit when someone says their car is in the shop and they need a ride/borrow a car/can't do X activity. If someone were looking for a first or only gun, no I would not suggest it.

[Chokejug]

Funny, I just saw a couple advertized.
But they wanted virtually new price and that turned me off, immediately!

Now, it does seem like some of you guys with lots of experience here, might be fine with it.

But especially because of so little difference in price, I am going to pass!

[1911SHOOTER]

Funny, I just saw a couple advertized.
But they wanted virtually new price and that turned me off, immediately!

Now, it does seem like some of you guys with lots of experience here, might be fine with it.

But especially because of so little difference in price, I am going to pass!

Chokejug,
     Check on the right side of the gun, if it says "Charlotte, NC, walk away, it is now made in Huntsville, Al.  Buy it
and read the comments on here.
Blackie

[Chokejug]

Thanks Blackie!
So that is it, the Is all were made in NC while the IIs are made in AL?

I have to call a few places and see if anyone has one or more on the line to rent.  Sure would like to shoot one before buying.

I got bit that way with a Bobreg.
Liked the design, havent had one failure of any kind, BUT it tears up my trigger finger and the knuckle on the finger next to it.

Trigger guard is too small, and my hands are too old and decrepet!    It is "supposed" to be lighter recoiling but to me, its the kickingnest 9mm that I have ever shot!

81 and arthritis ain't fun!

BTW, Chokejug is something I seemed to have to change to while signing up here.  The software seemed to think that I was a robot, and I had to chage enough things around to get by it!
My normal screen name is Jugchoke, as in the shotgun game.  And yes, I have jugchoked cylinder bore barrels, by hand.  Shades of old V. M. Starr!

[1911SHOOTER]

Thanks Blackie!
So that is it, the Is all were made in NC while the IIs are made in AL?

I have to call a few places and see if anyone has one or more on the line to rent.  Sure would like to shoot one before buying.

I got bit that way with a Bobreg.
Liked the design, havent had one failure of any kind, BUT it tears up my trigger finger and the knuckle on the finger next to it.

Trigger guard is too small, and my hands are too old and decrepet!    It is "supposed" to be lighter recoiling but to me, its the kickingnest 9mm that I have ever shot!

81 and arthritis ain't fun!

BTW, Chokejug is something I seemed to have to change to while signing up here.  The software seemed to think that I was a robot, and I had to chage enough things around to get by it!
My normal screen name is Jugchoke, as in the shotgun game.  And yes, I have jugchoked cylinder bore barrels, by hand.  Shades of old V. M. Starr!

Chokejug,
     I went to a western store and bought a set of goatskin leather riding gloves after my R51 nibbled on my hand.   Works great now.   And for some reason
the right hand glove is not getting chewed up.  Maybe your hand will like the 9MM better with a shooting glove?
I don't really care what anybody thinks about me using gloves on the range,   Makes 83 fun!     I shoot comfortable.  If I have to defend myself, I can stand the slide bite.
Blackie

BTW, is that a Bobreg or a Boberg?  I tried to goggle it.

[SCurmudgeon]

To my mind, I wouldn't buy a used R51 because the lifetime warranty doesn't transfer.  Even at a discount, the cost savings wouldn't be worth it.

It is possible that a gun shop has a used Gen 1 pistol that was stamped "Charlotte, NC", but I don't think it is likely.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for the Gen 2 refurbishments, didn't Remington claim that there were no changes to the frame design and that the existing stock of Charlotte-stamped frames was rebuilt into Gen 2 pistols in the Huntsville plant?

I remember asking, but I don't think anyone has published a report on physical or performance differences between the Charlotte and Huntsville-stamped frames.

[FlatEarther]

Bought my Gen2 in July new in the box. Has Gen2 slide with Charlotte frame.
So to me all Gen1 are Charlotte, but Gen2 could be Charlotte or Huntsville frame...

Just checked... Grabagun has R51 for $277 (+ tax or handling) new with warranty.

[Chokejug]

Its Boberg.
Now bought out by Bond Arms.
With intent to build,,,,,,,,,,      sometime??

I have one of the very last, actually built by Boberg himself.
Reverse action, the slide hooks and drags the cartridge backwards out of the magazine and then slams it straight forward into the chamber.

Has NO feed ramp and only a folded spring for a magazine follower.  Barrel does not tip or move, the bolt turns for lock up.

Allows for a 4 plus inch barrel  to be used in a sub/compact frame.  (That is the L or long model.  The S or short model, the muzzle ends at the front of the trigger guard.)

[SCurmudgeon]

Bond Arms

The Boberg XR9s is now the Bond Arms BullPup9.  Apparently they only make 150 a month.
https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/bond-arms-bullpup/

I'm not a fan of the looks of a pistol whose barrel ends at the front of the trigger guard, but I really like the lines of the rest of the gun, especially the wooden grip panels.  I don't know enough about firearms design to comment on whether the reverse feed mechanism should reduce or increase felt recoil.  Putting 9mm power in a package that small and light is bound to result in snappy recoil.

Boberg Arms

If your Boberg-built XR9 functions flawlessly, you are lucky.  Boberg seems to have run into similar problems as Remington did with the first production run of the R51.  There is little room for manufacturing error with innovative designs in small packages.  Couple that with being a small maker, he just didn't have the resources to provide proper customer support and he got torched for it on the internet.

[Chokejug]

I tend to think that Boberg's problem was more ammo related than anything else.  And stuborn people who wouldnt follow directions!

Even then, it does sort of mimic the modern R51.

Boberg, sent printed warnings, (that virtually couldnt be missed), about which ammo NOT TO USE!
But for some reason that didn't work to well.
It turned lots of people off immediately.
They blamed the gun!  Some how Arne Boberg was supposed to violate the laws of physics and somehow increase the case neck tension on the bullet of ammo that he had no control over.

Federal is one of the worst as far as this neck tension goes but people either didnt read, or willfully deccided that "they knew more about the gun than the guy who made it", and tried it anyway!

Even one of the gun review writers did the same thing and then proclaimed the gun a "failure"!

Mine has ran flawlessly, but then I wouldnt even consider trying "what is already known", not to work.
Especially when there is so much perfectly good functioning ammo out there.

What happens here is that this gun "reverse loads", so the cartrige is pulled, quite suddenly, backwards out of the mag and set up to go back straight forwards into the chamber.  There is NO FEED RAMP used or needed here.
When that slide grabs the case by the rim, and jerks it backwards, if that brass neck does not have enough tension on the bullet, the bullet just sits there in the mag and unburned powder is spread all over inside the gun.  BIG MESS!
Let alone being "out of service"!

[russc2542]

+1 the only used R51s I've seen were asking more than I paid retail. Granted I got mine from Rural King on sale during the re-release so it was pretty cheap but I kind of use that as the bar for used: lowest retail price minus 10-20% for being used and down for condition/accessories. Seems like a lot of people/places price them as MSRP-10%.

I have one of the new Bond versions of the Boberg. They started shipping early summer '17. Very small package but very manageable. It's somewhat wide (for a single-stack) due to the wraparound wood grips but otherwise not much larger than a TCP. It's a little heavy for the size due to alloy frame and stainless slide. The design does mitigate perceived recoil a LOT. Like the R51, it doesn't make the recoil go away, it just makes it equivalent to a much larger browning tilt-barrel pistol. It's a pocket pistol with perceived-recoil like a full-size. I haven't shoot them side by side but from shooting them weeks apart, I'd say the perceived recoil's a milder than my TCP (wider grip, longer slide travel, mechanism). It's still 9mm actual recoil which will rattle arthritic joints.

The only problem mine's had is a failure for me to fully seat a mag. there is a list of approved ammo and I've been exploring a few others not on the "don't use" list but I haven't had a dreaded pull-ammo-apart failure yet. I even shot a steel match with it and managed to mostly not embarrass myself (darn double-action trigger travel takes a while to get used to. smooth as a mirror but long travel)

I will admit it's not very friendly to reloading since
1. The warranty says "no reload or reman ammo"
2. Has a very tight chamber (at the min spec, haven't had issues with factory but more than a few of my resized cases needed persuasion in and out of the chamber.)
3. chews up the brass. whenever I shoot it, it's full of yellow brass powder. the few cases I've recovered have several dings and gouges.
4. It's hard to recover the brass if it's in the next county. Indoors I can get most of it but when I took it to the steel match, everyone ran for cover as it chucked the brass OVER the roof over the rifle benches, landing further behind me than I was shooting in front.