2nd R51 Gen2 fun and frustration

[PaulE]

Got my first R51 Gen2 last fall. After about 300 rds, POI was 8" low at 7 yds and  was plagued with additional problems. Sent it in (went to Mark's in Birmingham), where it sat, untouched for two months. Remington area rep had it sent to him, and finally a repair dept. supervisor had a new pistol sent to me. Picked it up after Christmas.
2nd pistol, also a Charlotte frame, has been better, Like the first one, initial field strip, clean and lube. Cleaned again at 200 rds., again at 750, again at 975, and another cleaning at 1025. The last time was to test how long from fully clean and lubed to the first FTF with my carry ammo, 147gr Hydroshok. For this gun, seems to be after 35-40 rounds, a cartridge will prevent the slide from pushing it into battery. The round is horizontal, still in the magazine, but not captured under the front lip on the magazine. A gentle push against the rear of the slide will successfully chamber the round every time. This round count to an FTF has been pretty consistent after each cleaning, not counting the initial one.
This FTF problem has been present since the first three rounds in the new gun did this. I had some of the other break-in glitches, a few full nosedives, a couple stovepipes of live rounds and a single stovepipe of an ejecting fired case. The FTF issue is still keeping me from carrying this weapon, which is the reason I bought it.
Other issues, which may or may not bear on the FTF problem are:
1-   Retaining pin that holds the magazine catch in place keeps drifting to the right, far enough to misalign by over half the pin diameter upwards. pushing the catch assembly down into alignment allows the pin to go back into place.
2-   Considerable frame wear on both sides of the platform the breech block jumps up onto during cycling. Finish is worn off completely and the allow is wearing noticeably.
3-   Prior to the cleaning at 750 rds., the gun was quite dirty. I had a number of misfires from light primer strikes. During cleaning, I checked the breech block and the firing pin had difficulty moving back and forth. After soaking in a carbon solvent, then a trip through an ultrasonic, the issue went away.
There are still the annoying things like the lack of dehorning the underside of the "beavertail" and the persistently low POI with a combat center sight picture. I can live with those, it point shoots perfectly without using the sights, but I want to carry it and the FTF issue has to go away.

Thanks for any insights/ideas.

[lklawson]

At least one user has reported his solution to this problem was to trim the front wall of the magazine down just a little bit.  He reported 1/10".

http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/!st-round-chambering/msg541/#msg541

You might also try non-hollow point bullets or bullets without a large-ish flat point.  Options such as Hornady Critical Defense, Hornady Critical Duty, and Cor-Bon Pow'rBall come to mind.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[PaulE]

At least one user has reported his solution to this problem was to trim the front wall of the magazine down just a little bit.  He reported 1/10".

http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/!st-round-chambering/msg541/#msg541

I have considered this, but the occurrences are very random, so I am hesitant until a clearer pattern emerges.

You might also try non-hollow point bullets or bullets without a large-ish flat point.  Options such as Hornady Critical Defense, Hornady Critical Duty, and Cor-Bon Pow'rBall come to mind.

I agree that a different carry round may be preferable, but I am not there yet. And to clarify any confusion, of the 1000+ rounds I have fired in this gun, less than 100 are hollow points. The rest are brass cased 115, 124 and 147 gr factory FMJ ammo. By far the most issues are with 115gr RN FMJ, both Remington and Speer.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[1911SHOOTER]

Got my first R51 Gen2 last fall. After about 300 rds, POI was 8" low at 7 yds and  was plagued with additional problems. Sent it in (went to Mark's in Birmingham), where it sat, untouched for two months. Remington area rep had it sent to him, and finally a repair dept. supervisor had a new pistol sent to me. Picked it up after Christmas.
2nd pistol, also a Charlotte frame, has been better, Like the first one, initial field strip, clean and lube. Cleaned again at 200 rds., again at 750, again at 975, and another cleaning at 1025. The last time was to test how long from fully clean and lubed to the first FTF with my carry ammo, 147gr Hydroshok. For this gun, seems to be after 35-40 rounds, a cartridge will prevent the slide from pushing it into battery. The round is horizontal, still in the magazine, but not captured under the front lip on the magazine. A gentle push against the rear of the slide will successfully chamber the round every time. This round count to an FTF has been pretty consistent after each cleaning, not counting the initial one.
This FTF problem has been present since the first three rounds in the new gun did this. I had some of the other break-in glitches, a few full nosedives, a couple stovepipes of live rounds and a single stovepipe of an ejecting fired case. The FTF issue is still keeping me from carrying this weapon, which is the reason I bought it.
Other issues, which may or may not bear on the FTF problem are:
1-   Retaining pin that holds the magazine catch in place keeps drifting to the right, far enough to misalign by over half the pin diameter upwards. pushing the catch assembly down into alignment allows the pin to go back into place.
2-   Considerable frame wear on both sides of the platform the breech block jumps up onto during cycling. Finish is worn off completely and the allow is wearing noticeably.
3-   Prior to the cleaning at 750 rds., the gun was quite dirty. I had a number of misfires from light primer strikes. During cleaning, I checked the breech block and the firing pin had difficulty moving back and forth. After soaking in a carbon solvent, then a trip through an ultrasonic, the issue went away.
There are still the annoying things like the lack of dehorning the underside of the "beavertail" and the persistently low POI with a combat center sight picture. I can live with those, it point shoots perfectly without using the sights, but I want to carry it and the FTF issue has to go away.

Thanks for any insights/ideas.

PaulE
     Your feed problems and wear problems are something I have not seen on the blogs yet.  I bought a set of shooting gloves for range work, cured the sore web. 
Not to worry in a combat situation, doubt you would notice it.  I ran my RR51 dirty for several months because of the heavy action spring, until I got a clamp to
hold the barrel to keep the slide open.  No feed problems.  You might call Remington and ask if you can send it to them instead of a Remington Representative.
Detail your problems to a Remington gunsmith. 
I kinda feel like some of these "Authorized  Repair Centers" are snowed under and trying to get the guns out the door too quickly.
Just my thoughts.
Blackie   

[PaulE]

Blackie, thanks for your insights.

I am, admittedly, shying away from Remington service after my initial experience. They basically held my gun for two months (at Mark's, their choice), and then just sent me a new one when they had not yet looked at it and had no  answers. Their followup was non-existent. Initially I was told they would contact my local FFL and contact me with the details. This was on the Friday before the week of Christmas. I got no call back, no email, and when I called to check on 12-21, they were closed for the holiday. After Christmas, I called again, my contact person was off for the week, but another guy told me the replacement was already shipped. I called my FFL and it had arrived on 12-20. My original contact had also told me they would reimburse me for the second transfer and NICS check, since it had a new serial number. Never happened, and have not been able to contact him since.

When I sent the original gun in for repair (3 days after I got it), I included a detailed explanation of each problem I had found, and included it in my original request for warranty repair. No one I spoke with subsequently had ever seen that information. If there is any internal mechanism for tracking various issues, I have not heard any evidence of it in conversations I have had with Remington. I am not looking forward to sending this one back. One, I don't believe they can fix any of these, that it's basically a lottery. If yours works, good to go, if not, they will keep sending them until you get a good one. The flaw for me is that it takes around $500 worth of ammo to do a full evaluation of whether I will risk my life on any pistol. The first one I got was so bad it took less than 300 rounds for me to give up, and the last half of those was because I wouldn't believe that Remington had made a second mess of it. Not sure I am willing to invest another 1000+ rounds of quality ammo to learn whether the third time is really the charm.

[1911SHOOTER]

Blackie, thanks for your insights.

I am, admittedly, shying away from Remington service after my initial experience. They basically held my gun for two months (at Mark's, their choice), and then just sent me a new one when they had not yet looked at it and had no  answers. Their followup was non-existent. Initially I was told they would contact my local FFL and contact me with the details. This was on the Friday before the week of Christmas. I got no call back, no email, and when I called to check on 12-21, they were closed for the holiday. After Christmas, I called again, my contact person was off for the week, but another guy told me the replacement was already shipped. I called my FFL and it had arrived on 12-20. My original contact had also told me they would reimburse me for the second transfer and NICS check, since it had a new serial number. Never happened, and have not been able to contact him since.

When I sent the original gun in for repair (3 days after I got it), I included a detailed explanation of each problem I had found, and included it in my original request for warranty repair. No one I spoke with subsequently had ever seen that information. If there is any internal mechanism for tracking various issues, I have not heard any evidence of it in conversations I have had with Remington. I am not looking forward to sending this one back. One, I don't believe they can fix any of these, that it's basically a lottery. If yours works, good to go, if not, they will keep sending them until you get a good one. The flaw for me is that it takes around $500 worth of ammo to do a full evaluation of whether I will risk my life on any pistol. The first one I got was so bad it took less than 300 rounds for me to give up, and the last half of those was because I wouldn't believe that Remington had made a second mess of it. Not sure I am willing to invest another 1000+ rounds of quality ammo to learn whether the third time is really the charm.

PaulE,
     At this point I do not know what to say.  My frame is also a Charlotte frame.  I  finally got my gun to rack after trimming the magazine followers legs 3/16" on each leg.
At this point, it shoots +P, 115 grain, and some Power Ball 100 gr, Winchester steel case, aluminium case, and any other ammo I can dig up.  It runs it all.
I am presently using it as a backup for my Ruger Sr1911.   I would not communicate with the "Repair Reps", because they have their own agendas and their own customers
to take care of first.   Remington, in my opinion does not really care to communicate with R51 owners on a one to one basis that well.  Or, they do not seem knowledgeable
about the R51s.  I have seen several posts that were on the same subject and the posters to Remington received several different answers.
Out of 7 emails I sent, I got answers to 2.  And one was to send my gun to Alabama, the  other I cannot remember, as it was not very memorable.
Ruger,  RIA, S&W, and a ton of other manufacturers do their own repairs  with no arguments.  Why Big green goes down a different road, I do not know, unless they do not
have qualified Gunsmiths. My recommendation for now,  use it for a plinker,  keep records of rounds and mishaps.  Just shoot it casually when you go out to plink, and see if it gets any better.
I like you would not waste a lot of ammo on a serious quest for perfection.   If it gets over the blahs, fine, otherwise, use it for a fun plinker!  It is fun to shoot!
Blackie