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Author Topic: Replacement barrel  (Read 2223 times)

lklawson

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Replacement barrel
« on: June 19, 2017, 06:55:31 AM »
So my flea-bay barrel came (Tuesday, IMS).  It plunks a little be looser than the original but still a tad tighter than the other barrels I used for comparison.  I took it to the range on Friday.

It runs Factory New FMJ just fine.  I didn't have time to extensively test with my reloads but it seemed to feed them without any issue.  Did "dead trigger" twice on my with my reloads.  These reloads were using the SNS Casting 115 gr. LRN (coated HC) instead of the Missouri Bullet Company 115 gr. LRN (coated HC) that I had been using (I didn't have any loaded up to test).  Fed and ejected them just fine.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 10:28:00 AM »
So my flea-bay barrel came (Tuesday, IMS).  It plunks a little be looser than the original but still a tad tighter than the other barrels I used for comparison.  I took it to the range on Friday.

It runs Factory New FMJ just fine.  I didn't have time to extensively test with my reloads but it seemed to feed them without any issue.  Did "dead trigger" twice on my with my reloads.  These reloads were using the SNS Casting 115 gr. LRN (coated HC) instead of the Missouri Bullet Company 115 gr. LRN (coated HC) that I had been using (I didn't have any loaded up to test).  Fed and ejected them just fine.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


Kirk,
     Glad it seems to be working.  Is it possible that the barrels are not quite quality as controlled as Remington thinks they are?   My neighbor ordered one, and it
plunked great, but would not drop into the slide.  Breech was a hair too wide.  What is "Dead Trigger"?
Blackie 
So many guns, so little time!

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 11:13:14 PM »
Kirk,
     Glad it seems to be working.  Is it possible that the barrels are not quite quality as controlled as Remington thinks they are?   My neighbor ordered one, and it
plunked great, but would not drop into the slide.  Breech was a hair too wide.
We don't really know where these flea-bay barrels come from.  They may be factory seconds, test runs, or liquidated stock from the Gen 1.  They don't come directly from Remington or have a Remington warranty so it's a gamble.  That is part of the reason why I waited so long to buy one.

Quote
What is "Dead Trigger"?
Blackie
Maybe sometimes called a "slack trigger."  Round is chambered but the trigger does "catch" and won't release the sear.  I'm currently conjecturing that some slight variance in the rebuilt round is tweaking the Out Of Battery Disconnect.  This is very frustrating to me because I know the rounds are safe and I measure and verify them constantly.  They always measure to within SAAMI tolerances, I follow the printed procedures and Best Practices to the letter, and they function fine in all other firearms I've tried them in.  The R51 is just more finicky about ammo.  <sigh>

Still, using the new barrel, I did not have any feed related issues, but more testing is required.  I will build another box of ammo (hopefully this week) to further test my reloads against this new barrel.

To clarify my process for 9mm reloads:
I use a Lee single stage press.  I wash the brass, then tumble in walnut media.  I use a Lee 9mm Carbide die set, setup and adjusted in accordance with the pamphlet supplied with the set.  I use the resizing and depriming die.  Then I use the Belling die, also setup and adjusted to the Lee pamphlet spec, and the Lee Safety Prime on-press priming system.  The brass comes out clean, belled, and primed.  Each piece of brass gets individually inspected before it goes into the die and after it comes out.  So, by this point, each piece has been visually inspected 4 times (two dies, in and out).  Then I powder and seat the bullet.  To do this, I verify the powder drop weight on my scale (I always choose a load which is under maximum charge weight).  Then I drop the powder directly into the brass and visually inspect the charge to see if it "looks" right.  Then, immediately, the single piece of brass (primed, belled, and now charged) goes into the press with the Seating Die (again, adjusted to the Lee pamphlet specs), receives a bullet, and is seated.  It comes out and visually inspected.  I will spot-check OAL (Over All Length, aka COAL - Cartridge Over All Length) to ensure that the bullet is seated to proper depth with a caliper.  About every 15-25 rounds or so, I spot-check again.  Most people who reload will use the Seating Die to apply a crimp.  I used to do this until my R51 proved finicky about the crimp diameter.  I can only crimp it down so hard using the Seating Die before the crimp is too much tucked in and the case mouth starts slipping past the Shoulder when inserted into the Chamber.  Bad Juju.  So I stopped using the Seating Die to crimp and bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die.  This cranks the crimp down to perfect SAAMI spec, won't "over-crimp" or curl the crimp in an allow the cartridge to funnel itself past the Shoulder.  I also spot-check the crimp using calipers.

I've used 3 different bullet shapes from 3 different manufacturers; all in 115 gr. hard cast Lead Round Nose (Black Bullets, SNS Casting, and Missouri Bullet Company), "coated" bullets.  This R51, with the original barrel, pretty much hates all of them but likes factory new 115gr. copper FMJ.  I have ordered 125gr. Lead Cone Nose bullets from Missouri Bullet Company to see if my R51 will like that bullet shape better.

I'm not used to guns being this picky.  My first Gen 2 R51 wasn't.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

SCurmudgeon

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 12:49:46 AM »
Did the new barrel change your point of aim?

Or would you not expect this to happen just because you changed your barrel out?

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 01:30:41 AM »
Did the new barrel change your point of aim?
Not significantly, no.

Quote
Or would you not expect this to happen just because you changed your barrel out?
There's a chance, yes.  But with this design, at pistol ranges, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of change.  It could happen though. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 06:57:17 AM »
Did the new barrel change your point of aim?
Not significantly, no.

Quote
Or would you not expect this to happen just because you changed your barrel out?
There's a chance, yes.  But with this design, at pistol ranges, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of change.  It could happen though. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirk,
     I am not sure what the law is on mailing ammo from one person to another,  But if there is any way,  I would like to take 7 rounds of the
reloads that are giving you fits, and try it in my R51.   As I said recently, there is not a brand of ammo that I have tried that does not function
perfectly in my Gen II.  Even the short  100GR Pow'rBall +P ammo Which is COAL  2.7 MM.
(Eyeball & MM ruler)
Blackie
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:00:04 AM by 1911SHOOTER »
So many guns, so little time!

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 12:56:58 AM »
Kirk,
     I am not sure what the law is on mailing ammo from one person to another,  But if there is any way,  I would like to take 7 rounds of the
reloads that are giving you fits, and try it in my R51.   As I said recently, there is not a brand of ammo that I have tried that does not function
perfectly in my Gen II.
Two different things going on.
Shipping ammo, either factory new or reloads: Perfectly legal but must be shipped through a Private Carrier (such as UPS) and use the ORM-D subset of HazMat code.  This usually means "expensive."
Second is that reloaders cannot sell new manufactured or remanufacture ammunition unless they have a federal license.

So I could donate the rounds to you, legally.  We could probably trade for stuff, or even "reimburse" for materials cost, but not my time but that becomes sketchy area.

In short, I could send the ammo to you by Private Carrier, but their shipping costs are usually more than I'd like and they usually force me to jump through hoops like only accepting shipment at their central shipping facility.  The "UPS Store" isn't allowed to take ORM-D, HazMat, or even guns for shipping.

FWIW, these rounds run fine in my other 9mm guns.  I've given 25 rounds to a friend who will shoot them through his Glock.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Ray R

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 07:34:14 AM »
There is a problem that can occur with 9mm Luger reloads that I have experienced in several guns: a friends Kimber, my SA Range Officer and my R51. All these guns have fairly tight chambers.

If the reloaded round does not get fully chambered; and this is most common in a tightly chambered gun, the gun won't fire. This is often due to a bulge at the very back of the case that the sizing die doesn't get to. The gun may appear to be in battery, but a close examination of the back of the slide and the back of the rail will show the slide needs to move forward a little more. This mismatch may only be 1 mm and can easily go unobserved.

The reloaded 9mm case does not get sized down near the base because most sizing dies don't allow the base of the case deep enough entry into the die for sizing to occur in this location. Depending on the lack of tightness of the chamber in the gun that the round was originally fired from and the manufactured spec's of the brass, there can be a slight bulge at the case's base; just where the die doesn't get to. Many reloader's won't use range brass for this reason. It is too hard to identify which brass has bulged.

This type of problem is common enough that Lee just started making a special sizing die that sizes all the way down to the base of the case and actually undersizes the case itself a few mm's so it will always fit reliably in tightly chambered guns. You can see the details of this die in Lee's most recent literature. I just bought one and will use it to replace the standard sizing die in my 9mm tool head.

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 08:24:59 AM »
Kirk,
     I am not sure what the law is on mailing ammo from one person to another,  But if there is any way,  I would like to take 7 rounds of the
reloads that are giving you fits, and try it in my R51.   As I said recently, there is not a brand of ammo that I have tried that does not function
perfectly in my Gen II.
Two different things going on.
Shipping ammo, either factory new or reloads: Perfectly legal but must be shipped through a Private Carrier (such as UPS) and use the ORM-D subset of HazMat code.  This usually means "expensive."
Second is that reloaders cannot sell new manufactured or remanufacture ammunition unless they have a federal license.

So I could donate the rounds to you, legally.  We could probably trade for stuff, or even "reimburse" for materials cost, but not my time but that becomes sketchy area.

In short, I could send the ammo to you by Private Carrier, but their shipping costs are usually more than I'd like and they usually force me to jump through hoops like only accepting shipment at their central shipping facility.  The "UPS Store" isn't allowed to take ORM-D, HazMat, or even guns for shipping.

FWIW, these rounds run fine in my other 9mm guns.  I've given 25 rounds to a friend who will shoot them through his Glock.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk




    Kirk,
,That being said,  I guess It would be illegal for me to "Compensate" you for shipping costs.   Any way,  it was just a thought.
Blackie
 
So many guns, so little time!

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 08:26:52 AM »
Kirk,
     Glad it seems to be working.  Is it possible that the barrels are not quite quality as controlled as Remington thinks they are?   My neighbor ordered one, and it
plunked great, but would not drop into the slide.  Breech was a hair too wide.
We don't really know where these flea-bay barrels come from.  They may be factory seconds, test runs, or liquidated stock from the Gen 1.  They don't come directly from Remington or have a Remington warranty so it's a gamble.  That is part of the reason why I waited so long to buy one.

Quote
What is "Dead Trigger"?
Blackie
Maybe sometimes called a "slack trigger."  Round is chambered but the trigger does "catch" and won't release the sear.  I'm currently conjecturing that some slight variance in the rebuilt round is tweaking the Out Of Battery Disconnect.  This is very frustrating to me because I know the rounds are safe and I measure and verify them constantly.  They always measure to within SAAMI tolerances, I follow the printed procedures and Best Practices to the letter, and they function fine in all other firearms I've tried them in.  The R51 is just more finicky about ammo.  <sigh>

Still, using the new barrel, I did not have any feed related issues, but more testing is required.  I will build another box of ammo (hopefully this week) to further test my reloads against this new barrel.

To clarify my process for 9mm reloads:
I use a Lee single stage press.  I wash the brass, then tumble in walnut media.  I use a Lee 9mm Carbide die set, setup and adjusted in accordance with the pamphlet supplied with the set.  I use the resizing and depriming die.  Then I use the Belling die, also setup and adjusted to the Lee pamphlet spec, and the Lee Safety Prime on-press priming system.  The brass comes out clean, belled, and primed.  Each piece of brass gets individually inspected before it goes into the die and after it comes out.  So, by this point, each piece has been visually inspected 4 times (two dies, in and out).  Then I powder and seat the bullet.  To do this, I verify the powder drop weight on my scale (I always choose a load which is under maximum charge weight).  Then I drop the powder directly into the brass and visually inspect the charge to see if it "looks" right.  Then, immediately, the single piece of brass (primed, belled, and now charged) goes into the press with the Seating Die (again, adjusted to the Lee pamphlet specs), receives a bullet, and is seated.  It comes out and visually inspected.  I will spot-check OAL (Over All Length, aka COAL - Cartridge Over All Length) to ensure that the bullet is seated to proper depth with a caliper.  About every 15-25 rounds or so, I spot-check again.  Most people who reload will use the Seating Die to apply a crimp.  I used to do this until my R51 proved finicky about the crimp diameter.  I can only crimp it down so hard using the Seating Die before the crimp is too much tucked in and the case mouth starts slipping past the Shoulder when inserted into the Chamber.  Bad Juju.  So I stopped using the Seating Die to crimp and bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die.  This cranks the crimp down to perfect SAAMI spec, won't "over-crimp" or curl the crimp in an allow the cartridge to funnel itself past the Shoulder.  I also spot-check the crimp using calipers.

I've used 3 different bullet shapes from 3 different manufacturers; all in 115 gr. hard cast Lead Round Nose (Black Bullets, SNS Casting, and Missouri Bullet Company), "coated" bullets.  This R51, with the original barrel, pretty much hates all of them but likes factory new 115gr. copper FMJ.  I have ordered 125gr. Lead Cone Nose bullets from Missouri Bullet Company to see if my R51 will like that bullet shape better.

I'm not used to guns being this picky.  My first Gen 2 R51 wasn't.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


Kirk,
     I forgot to ask,  Is the new barrel from Flea bay this picky?
Blackie
So many guns, so little time!

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 12:14:11 AM »
Kirk,
     I forgot to ask,  Is the new barrel from Flea bay this picky?
Blackie
I don't know yet.

I've only had it in one range session.  It liked the Factory New ammo just fine.  However, I did not have any of my current recipe of reloads ready to test with it.  I had some of my earlier SNS Casting bullets reloads.  It "dead triggered" twice on those.  But I didn't get to run many of those in it either.  Just not much time.  Might not have much time tomorrow either. 

I've built another box to test, again, hopefully tomorrow.  The reloads do plunk a bit more amicably in the new barrel, so I find that encouraging.  :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Texas-Mark

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2017, 03:06:15 AM »
Kirk,

Have you been checking the case rims on your reloads? I ask because I have had some guns that the extractor tends to chew up the rim. That has on occasion then cause feeding issues with some other guns that have stiff extractors where the extractor "hangs" on the rim valley while feeding. I had one case with a munged up rim jam up my LC9s to the point I nearly had to take a hammer to it.

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 05:30:16 AM »
Kirk,

Have you been checking the case rims on your reloads? I ask because I have had some guns that the extractor tends to chew up the rim. That has on occasion then cause feeding issues with some other guns that have stiff extractors where the extractor "hangs" on the rim valley while feeding. I had one case with a munged up rim jam up my LC9s to the point I nearly had to take a hammer to it.
I visually inspect the cases multiple times during the reload process.  A chewed up rim would get the case thrown into the recycle bin with the berdan brass, spent brass primers, .22 brass, trimmings, and some guppy-bellies I've found.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lklawson

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Re: Replacement barrel
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 01:04:03 AM »
Over this week I've loaded up 50 more rounds of the 115gr. Hard Cast (HC) Lead Round Nose (LRN) Coated bullets to test in my new barrel.

A friend and student donated some 124gr HC LRN bullets to try also.  I loaded 15 of those.

My order of 125gr. HC Lead Cone Nose (LCN) came in so I loaded 25 of those too. 

Planning on going to the range this afternoon. 

It's raining cats and dogs and likely to continue so I probably won't get to test them this week after all.  :(

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

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