Remington R-51 Pistol Forum

General Category => R51 General Discussion => Topic started by: Texas-Mark on December 25, 2016, 03:09:47 AM

Title: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on December 25, 2016, 03:09:47 AM
I have read where people have complained about having problems racking the R51 with a full mag. I too initially had the same problem. However after keeping the mags fully loaded for about a week so the mag springs can take a set, and running several hundred rounds through the gun, I no longer have a problem. I have done no modifications to the mag. Here is a short video where I demonstrate racking the gun with 7 rounds in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7exqqu7piA&app=desktop
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on December 25, 2016, 03:32:30 AM
Mine is starting to get looser too Tex. Still don't like not being able to completely disassemble the
thing, but I love shooting it. I may get a husky teenager to field strip it for me. Too bad my
grandkids all live outside of Texas.  Shooting function is 100% though, I have shot up all my
loose ammo in my range bag and now buying a different brand every weekend to try.
  :=}
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: GunFrogg on December 26, 2016, 12:46:20 AM
I have shot my R51 a lot (I just love shooting this little gun), and it feels it has gotten a little better racking with a full mag.

I'm starting to get the impression 1911shooter does not like disassembling his R51   :D








Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on December 27, 2016, 06:17:57 AM
I have shot my R51 a lot (I just love shooting this little gun), and it feels it has gotten a little better racking with a full mag.

I'm starting to get the impression 1911shooter does not like disassembling his R51   :D

Gun Frog,

You are very astute!  I muddle through it about every 4th time I shoot.  I also am noticing that I can rack the slide with a full mag,
but it is a chore for these old hands.  I still "slingshot" the slide on a full mag. I found some defensive ammo called "Power Ball".  It is "Polymer" capped JHP.
Strange thing is, it is it is almost 1/8" shorter, and only 100 GR. It is +P though. Gonna try is this weekend and I'll
Pass any results along..
Blackie

BTW: I am behind the times, evidently this ammo has been around for a while.  Don't know how I missed it.

https://www.corbon.com/pow-r-ball.html


   
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on December 27, 2016, 02:19:06 PM
I found some defensive ammo called "Power Ball".  It is "Polymer" capped JHP.
Strange thing is, it is it is almost 1/8" shorter, and only 100 GR. It is +P though. Gonna try is this weekend and I'll
Pass any results along..

I had tried that once (.45ACP in a 1911) and did not have very good results. I thought the round nose would feed well (as claimed), but the "power ball" actually seemed to "grab" onto the feed ramp and caused FTFs. However, that was the only gun I ever tried it in, so maybe you will have better luck. 
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on December 27, 2016, 10:41:13 PM
I have shot my R51 a lot (I just love shooting this little gun), and it feels it has gotten a little better racking with a full mag.

I'm starting to get the impression 1911shooter does not like disassembling his R51   :D

Gun Frog,

You are very astute!  I muddle through it about every 4th time I shoot.  I also am noticing that I can rack the slide with a full mag,
but it is a chore for these old hands.  I still "slingshot" the slide on a full mag. I found some defensive ammo called "Power Ball".  It is "Polymer" capped JHP.
Strange thing is, it is it is almost 1/8" shorter, and only 100 GR. It is +P though. Gonna try is this weekend and I'll
Pass any results along..
Blackie

BTW: I am behind the times, evidently this ammo has been around for a while.  Don't know how I missed it.

https://www.corbon.com/pow-r-ball.html


 
Pow'rBall is pretty good ammo.  It's designed to mimic the profile of FMJ so that it should feed more reliably while still being expanding ammunition.  The plastic pellet also prevents the hollow point from clogging, which helps to ensure expansion.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: GunFrogg on December 31, 2016, 11:43:36 AM
I have shot my R51 a lot (I just love shooting this little gun), and it feels it has gotten a little better racking with a full mag.

I'm starting to get the impression 1911shooter does not like disassembling his R51   :D

Gun Frog,

You are very astute!  I muddle through it about every 4th time I shoot.  I also am noticing that I can rack the slide with a full mag,
but it is a chore for these old hands.  I still "slingshot" the slide on a full mag. I found some defensive ammo called "Power Ball".  It is "Polymer" capped JHP.
Strange thing is, it is it is almost 1/8" shorter, and only 100 GR. It is +P though. Gonna try is this weekend and I'll
Pass any results along..
Blackie

BTW: I am behind the times, evidently this ammo has been around for a while.  Don't know how I missed it.

https://www.corbon.com/pow-r-ball.html


 

Hey 1911Shooter,
1/8 inch shorter . . . . humm the SAAMI spec on 9mm +p is a min of 1" COL. I am curious can you share what the COL is on those please.

I also am apparently behind the times. I have not heard of Power ball either. I did look it up and noticed it advertises it is designed to feed well.

Looking forward to hearing your impression on this ammo especially with Texas-Mark's observation the bullet seemed to grab the feed ramp.

happy new year
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 01, 2017, 04:28:33 AM
I have shot my R51 a lot (I just love shooting this little gun), and it feels it has gotten a little better racking with a full mag.

I'm starting to get the impression 1911shooter does not like disassembling his R51   :D

Gun Frog,

You are very astute!  I muddle through it about every 4th time I shoot.  I also am noticing that I can rack the slide with a full mag,
but it is a chore for these old hands.  I still "slingshot" the slide on a full mag. I found some defensive ammo called "Power Ball".  It is "Polymer" capped JHP.
Strange thing is, it is it is almost 1/8" shorter, and only 100 GR. It is +P though. Gonna try is this weekend and I'll
Pass any results along..
Blackie

BTW: I am behind the times, evidently this ammo has been around for a while.  Don't know how I missed it.

https://www.corbon.com/pow-r-ball.html


 

Hey 1911Shooter,
1/8 inch shorter . . . . humm the SAAMI spec on 9mm +p is a min of 1" COL. I am curious can you share what the COL is on those please.

I also am apparently behind the times. I have not heard of Power ball either. I did look it up and noticed it advertises it is designed to feed well.

Looking forward to hearing your impression on this ammo especially with Texas-Mark's observation the bullet seemed to grab the feed ramp.

happy new year

Hey, Gun Frog,
     Those measurements are R.A.B.  (ruler and eyeball)  The SAAMI COL  limits are 25.40mm.  min and 29.69 max.   I have some SIG 9mm "V Crown" that is 1 1/8 in, and the Power Ball is
1 1/16 in.   All other 9mm in my bag is 1 3/16. I do not have a Micro-meter, sorry. The difference in length between the P'ball and other 9mm is scaring the heck out of 1/8 inch though.
     I have not fired this ammo yet, as the holidays got in the way.  It seems to feed okay in the garage though.  I have a "Clear" bucket of sand.     
It is possible that when Texas-Mark fired it, the Polymer ball on the nose of the cartridge scrubbed against the ramp.   Either that, or his ramp needs polishing. Just a wild guess
Texas-Mark!
Any way that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
I will get back after I shoot some of it in my R51 and 1911s.
Happy New Year back atcha.
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 01, 2017, 10:15:48 AM
   
It is possible that when Texas-Mark fired it, the Polymer ball on the nose of the cartridge scrubbed against the ramp.   Either that, or his ramp needs polishing. Just a wild guess
Texas-Mark!

I was using it in a 1911 that has a very steep feed ramp to begin with. The ramp was polished. I bought it specifically because it was supposed to help feeding when hollow points would cause issues. But in my case the ball would tend to "grab" the feed ramp.

Not my video, but here is someone who had a similar problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNSocr4ivWA

The bottom line is if it feeds ok, great, but just as the guy in the video shows, it did not work as well for me as regular HPs. But I suspect it may work better in the R51 because the feed ramp is not as steep as a 1911.

Let us know how it works while actually firing. I may give it a second chance.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: marc82much on January 03, 2017, 03:21:34 AM
I just got back from the range. First time shooting my new R51. I could not rack the slide with 7 rounds in the mag either. Both magazines were the same. I could not even pull it back all the way. Major disappointment. For those that choose to carry without one in the chamber,  you now have a brick. I'm surprised.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 03, 2017, 03:40:20 AM
I just got back from the range. First time shooting my new R51. I could not rack the slide with 7 rounds in the mag either. Both magazines were the same. I could not even pull it back all the way. Major disappointment. For those that choose to carry without one in the chamber,  you now have a brick. I'm surprised.

Mrrc82much,
     I have the same problem. For the range, I lock the slide back, insert the mag with 7 rounds, and pull the slide and let it sling shot forward.
It will keep shooting all day using this procedure.  For carry, I use the same procedure and replace the cartridge in the mag that loaded into
the chamber.  I am not an advocate of "Israeli style drawing".  That is above my pay grade.  Hope you come to enjoy your R51 as much as
I enjoy mine. Brick or no brick!
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: marc82much on January 03, 2017, 03:56:25 AM
It's only a brick if I don't chamber one using first. I just called Remington to discuss the issue. Got a guy named Frank. He would not offer any help or advice, he just told me to send the gun back. They will look at it. Will take 2 days to 6 weeks. Sheesh. I think I am going to go back to CZ!
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 03, 2017, 05:43:14 AM
It's only a brick if I don't chamber one using first. I just called Remington to discuss the issue. Got a guy named Frank. He would not offer any help or advice, he just told me to send the gun back. They will look at it. Will take 2 days to 6 weeks. Sheesh. I think I am going to go back to CZ!

I have gotten a couple of offers to "Send it back", but they usually don't tell you it is going to a sub-contractor in Alabama.
The issue needs to be addressed by Remington, not some gunsmith in Alabama who is probably in over his head with work.  I don't  prescribe to " Israeli Carry'
as I said earlier, so the problem does not bother me.  I have about a thousand rounds through mine, and no issues.   Except it is so much fun
to shoot it, I am running out of 9MM ammo!  With a holster that covers the trigger guard I feel the gun is safe enough.  But that is a matter of preference
to the individual shooter.  Wanna borrow a CZ82?   :=}
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 03, 2017, 08:22:34 AM
It's only a brick if I don't chamber one using first. I just called Remington to discuss the issue. Got a guy named Frank. He would not offer any help or advice, he just told me to send the gun back. They will look at it. Will take 2 days to 6 weeks. Sheesh. I think I am going to go back to CZ!

Before you send it back, I suggest you give the mags springs a little time to break in by keeping them fully loaded. Every time I shoot mine, it becomes easier to rack a full mag. I have a feeling if you send it in, they will just say there is nothing wrong with it.

Someone else posted about cutting a loop or two off of the mag spring which most likely will also work, but I think at the expense of long term spring life.

Even my recoil spring (Remington calls it an action spring) is loosening up a bit.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: gskipper on January 04, 2017, 12:38:19 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 06, 2017, 04:07:38 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.

I am wondering who makes the mags for Remington.  If we could find out, maybe a little communication with them might produce results since Remington
is being so close mouthed about the issue. 
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on January 10, 2017, 05:41:10 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.

I am wondering who makes the mags for Remington.  If we could find out, maybe a little communication with them might produce results since Remington
is being so close mouthed about the issue. 
Blackie
Is there a chance they're made in-house?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 11, 2017, 06:11:52 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.

I am wondering who makes the mags for Remington.  If we could find out, maybe a little communication with them might produce results since Remington
is being so close mouthed about the issue. 
Blackie
Is there a chance they're made in-house?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Iklawson,
I have no idea,  just fishing.  Not a lot forthcoming from Remington.  Emsil  them a question, and they say send it to Alabama gun shop.  I imagine the
gunsmiths over there are overwhelmed right now.  There must be a few R51 owners having mag problems who are not Computer savvy that we don't
know about.  It appears that nobody at Remington reads this Blog or Remington Owners.com.
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on January 12, 2017, 02:36:38 AM
Iklawson,
I have no idea,  just fishing.  Not a lot forthcoming from Remington.
I don't know either, just wondering out loud.

Quote
Emsil  them a question, and they say send it to Alabama gun shop.  I imagine the
gunsmiths over there are overwhelmed right now.  There must be a few R51 owners having mag problems who are not Computer savvy that we don't
know about.  It appears that nobody at Remington reads this Blog or Remington Owners.com.
Blackie
I know you're over on RemingtonOwners.com, but I wouldn't recommend Remington read that forum.  I quit it somewhere early in 2014.  I found the, um, "quality" of the predominant posters at the time was, um, "sub-par."  It was sufficiently poor quality that it made the R51 forum there not only a useless waste of time, but actually damaging due to the great amount of misinformation and bad legal advice being presented.  I occasionally think of going back but then I glace at it and see some of the same posters and change my mind.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 12, 2017, 02:58:54 AM
Iklawson,
I have no idea,  just fishing.  Not a lot forthcoming from Remington.
I don't know either, just wondering out loud.

Quote
Emsil  them a question, and they say send it to Alabama gun shop.  I imagine the
gunsmiths over there are overwhelmed right now.  There must be a few R51 owners having mag problems who are not Computer savvy that we don't
know about.  It appears that nobody at Remington reads this Blog or Remington Owners.com.
Blackie
I know you're over on RemingtonOwners.com, but I wouldn't recommend Remington read that forum.  I quit it somewhere early in 2014.  I found the, um, "quality" of the predominant posters at the time was, um, "sub-par."  It was sufficiently poor quality that it made the R51 forum there not only a useless waste of time, but actually damaging due to the great amount of misinformation and bad legal advice being presented.  I occasionally think of going back but then I glace at it and see some of the same posters and change my mind.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirk,
     I know what you are saying, But I hope that one day I might get a jewel out of all the gravel over there on Rem owners.com.  Something that will help us
old farts with weak hands to field strip our R51s.  If you hear of anything, pass it on Kirk. I have an idea, but will wait to see if it works before I make a fool
of myself  :<{
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 13, 2017, 08:59:58 AM
In that other thread, I showed the wood block I use to make disassembly and assembly easier. So far it has been working fine for me. But if I had the tools and patience, I would make something shaped like this made out of polymer. It would fit into the chamber and the top would rest on the slide like my wood block (needs to let the breech block move freely). Having it in the chamber would result in less chance of it slipping out like the wood block can do if you are not careful. Once the slide is on, you just pull the slide back and dump it out. It would also be the right length to have the take down lever lined up.

Sorry for the poor drawing as I never claimed to be an artist.  :)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/21ezuv5.jpg)
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 13, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
In that other thread, I showed the wood block I use to make disassembly and assembly easier. So far it has been working fine for me. But if I had the tools and patience, I would make something shaped like this made out of polymer. It would fit into the chamber and the top would rest on the slide like my wood block (needs to let the breech block move freely). Having it in the chamber would result in less chance of it slipping out like the wood block can do if you are not careful. Once the slide is on, you just pull the slide back and dump it out. It would also be the right length to have the take down lever lined up.

Sorry for the poor drawing as I never claimed to be an artist.  :)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/21ezuv5.jpg)

Tex.
     That is alright. You are still trying.  I have an idea, but no knowledge of how to put a photo on this website.  Beyond my pay grade.  It would be a strip of metal bent 90 Degrees
at each end, to hook on the breech and the front of the slide.  (with padding to protect the blueing).          I_______I
Hang in there Tex!
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 14, 2017, 05:48:52 AM
  It would be a strip of metal bent 90 Degrees
at each end, to hook on the breech and the front of the slide.  (with padding to protect the blueing). 

The breech block or the barrel chamber? Nothing can touch the breech block because it needs to be able to move when the slide is removed or installed. That is why I have that inverted "L" shape to rest against the rear of the ejection port, so that the breech block can move freely. If the breech block is not allowed to move, it blocks the frame rails.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 15, 2017, 03:22:27 AM
  It would be a strip of metal bent 90 Degrees
at each end, to hook on the breech and the front of the slide.  (with padding to protect the blueing). 

The breech block or the barrel chamber? Nothing can touch the breech block because it needs to be able to move when the slide is removed or installed. That is why I have that inverted "L" shape to rest against the rear of the ejection port, so that the breech block can move freely. If the breech block is not allowed to move, it blocks the frame rails.

Tex,
     Bad terminology, of course I meant the chamber of the barrel.  Sometimes this old frame has "Brain Farts"!. 
Good thing I have you around to keep me honest!
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 15, 2017, 05:53:50 AM
Ok, now I see what you mean. But I don't think it will work. I tried a block of wood like that, but because the barrel is lower than the slide top, the spring pressure on it wants to rotate it clockwise and it would fly out. My original block of wood works because it is on an angle and the slide edge and barrel edge both  sort of "dig" into the block keeping it in place (as long as you are careful).  That is when I came up with the other idea above to have something that actually goes into the chamber so it can not go flying out regardless of the pressure on the top inverted "L" part..

But if your idea works, I would be glad to see how it looks.

My simple block from the other thread
(http://i63.tinypic.com/20fxlaq.jpg)
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: luteai on January 17, 2017, 10:30:28 AM
I'm having the same 'not able to rack a loaded mag' problem.  I've only ran about 100 rounds through the pistol, left the mags loaded to sit another week. If that fails what's next? Oh ya, while I disassembled and re-assembled the pistol 3 or 4 times prior to shooting, now that it's dirty she simply will not come apart... :o
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 18, 2017, 02:54:45 AM
I'm having the same 'not able to rack a loaded mag' problem.  I've only ran about 100 rounds through the pistol, left the mags loaded to sit another week. If that fails what's next? Oh ya, while I disassembled and re-assembled the pistol 3 or 4 times prior to shooting, now that it's dirty she simply will not come apart... :o

luteai
       Remington refuses to admit that there is a problem field stripping and reassembling the pistol.   Their video instruction shows Travis Tomasie  (Who can probably bench press a ton)
field stripping the R51.   No normal person can manipulate the barrel and spring the way he does.   Kinda like that young lady at the 2014 shot show racking the R51 with 1 finger.
Or the video showing  Tom Gresham from Gun Talk shooting two R51s all day with no jams.  However he is sling shoting the slide like we have to do.
This does not help us a bit.  Remington needs to get off their collective butts and let about 10 of us with problems  bring our own R51s to the factory and shoot them for the
engineers there. Let them see the problems, let them try to rack OUR R51s with a full mag.  Let them talk to us abut the problems a few of us are having.  Shipping an R51
to an Alabama gun shop proves nothing.  Except it deprives us of shooting our R51s we want to love.
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 18, 2017, 05:00:19 AM
I'm having the same 'not able to rack a loaded mag' problem.  I've only ran about 100 rounds through the pistol, left the mags loaded to sit another week. If that fails what's next? Oh ya, while I disassembled and re-assembled the pistol 3 or 4 times prior to shooting, now that it's dirty she simply will not come apart... :o

While I personally would not recommend it because the mags will keep loosening up, someone posted that they clipped a few coils off the mag springs to lighten up racking a full mag. It may help now, but may cause problems later after the springs do loosen up

As for disassembly and reassembly, I am finding that to be getting easier too.

IMO there is really nothing to fix as far as the mags go. They will lighten up over time for racking that first round. And disassembly/reassembly is just the nature of the design. Not sure what can be done about that other than using a fixture like mentioned earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 19, 2017, 02:17:11 AM
I'm having the same 'not able to rack a loaded mag' problem.  I've only ran about 100 rounds through the pistol, left the mags loaded to sit another week. If that fails what's next? Oh ya, while I disassembled and re-assembled the pistol 3 or 4 times prior to shooting, now that it's dirty she simply will not come apart... :o

While I personally would not recommend it because the mags will keep loosening up, someone posted that they clipped a few coils off the mag springs to lighten up racking a full mag. It may help now, but may cause problems later after the springs do loosen up

As for disassembly and reassembly, I am finding that to be getting easier too.

IMO there is really nothing to fix as far as the mags go. They will lighten up over time for racking that first round. And disassembly/reassembly is just the nature of the design. Not sure what can be done about that other than using a fixture like mentioned earlier in the thread.


Tex,
     As usual, you are making sense.   However, the inability to rack a cartridge from a full magazine persists with some guns.   Modifying the mag does not sound like the way to go.
As I said before, Remington needs to talk to the folks having this problem.  The way they are doing it, sending a shipping label for a gun shop in Alabama does not equate with
communicating with the gun owners having the problem.  I have about a 1000 rounds or so through my R51 with no malfunctions, other than being unable to rack the slide on a full mag.
Every time I go to the range, when I am through firing my pistol, I will try to rack the last mag instead of locking the slide while inserting the mag.   It still will not rack, the slide stops
about halfway back. 
Blackiel
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on January 19, 2017, 07:22:03 AM
One thing I would suggest when racking with a full mag is to do it "briskly". If you go too slow, the breech block will hang on the rim of the case like this. Then trying to force it back just causes the nose of the round to rise up because the case can not move back any farther in the mag. So you need to have enough momentum to get it to jump over the rim.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/117r3ww.jpg)

And if you let the slide go at that point where the block is hung on the rim, you will get this type of jam.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/6z25uu.jpg)

You can also polish the rear of the breech block "ramp" so that it more easily slides over the case rim

(http://i65.tinypic.com/jh7qy9.jpg)
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 19, 2017, 08:38:24 AM
One thing I would suggest when racking with a full mag is to do it "briskly". If you go too slow, the breech block will hang on the rim of the case like this. Then trying to force it back just causes the nose of the round to rise up because the case can not move back any farther in the mag. So you need to have enough momentum to get it to jump over the rim.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/117r3ww.jpg)

And if you let the slide go at that point where the block is hung on the rim, you will get this type of jam.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/6z25uu.jpg)

You can also polish the rear of the breech block "ramp" so that it more easily slides over the case rim

(http://i65.tinypic.com/jh7qy9.jpg)




Tex,
     I do not have that problem.  my problem was,  unable to pull the slide back with a full mag.  I corrected it by locking the slide open,  then inserting the full mag, and letting it
"Slam' forward. (Slingshot)  Since then, I have had no problems with any type of ammo. 
Your solutions are spot on, for racking with a closed slide though.  Me, I am too impatient to break in the pistol that way.  Great photos by the way!
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on January 25, 2017, 04:37:28 AM
I've always broken in recalcitrant magazines with a couple of wooden dowels or a couple of wooden paint stirs.  I hold the mag in my left hand, in a firm hammer-grip, place the end of the dowels/stirs on top of the follower, and depress the follower fully down 100 times.

It's fast.  It's easy.  It works.  And I don't have to break in the mags by shooting one full load 100 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on January 25, 2017, 10:24:40 AM
I've always broken in recalcitrant magazines with a couple of wooden dowels or a couple of wooden paint stirs.  I hold the mag in my left hand, in a firm hammer-grip, place the end of the dowels/stirs on top of the follower, and depress the follower fully down 100 times.

It's fast.  It's easy.  It works.  And I don't have to break in the mags by shooting one full load 100 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirki,
     Sounds like a winner, but it would be more fun to keep shooting 100 times.
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on January 31, 2017, 12:28:58 AM
I've always broken in recalcitrant magazines with a couple of wooden dowels or a couple of wooden paint stirs.  I hold the mag in my left hand, in a firm hammer-grip, place the end of the dowels/stirs on top of the follower, and depress the follower fully down 100 times.

It's fast.  It's easy.  It works.  And I don't have to break in the mags by shooting one full load 100 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirki,
     Sounds like a winner, but it would be more fun to keep shooting 100 times.
Blackie
I completely agree.  Definitely more fun.  Better practice too.  OTOH, a couple of wooden dowel rods are a lot less expensive than 700 rounds of ammo.  :D

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on February 02, 2017, 05:02:37 AM
I've always broken in recalcitrant magazines with a couple of wooden dowels or a couple of wooden paint stirs.  I hold the mag in my left hand, in a firm hammer-grip, place the end of the dowels/stirs on top of the follower, and depress the follower fully down 100 times.

It's fast.  It's easy.  It works.  And I don't have to break in the mags by shooting one full load 100 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirki,
     Sounds like a winner, but it would be more fun to keep shooting 100 times.
Blackie
I completely agree.  Definitely more fun.  Better practice too.  OTOH, a couple of wooden dowel rods are a lot less expensive than 700 rounds of ammo.  :D

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


Kirk,
     That is what my wife keeps telling me, but when I go to the range, she comes too, and shoots The R51 more than I do.  Go figure!
Blackie
   
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on February 03, 2017, 04:11:07 AM
I've always broken in recalcitrant magazines with a couple of wooden dowels or a couple of wooden paint stirs.  I hold the mag in my left hand, in a firm hammer-grip, place the end of the dowels/stirs on top of the follower, and depress the follower fully down 100 times.

It's fast.  It's easy.  It works.  And I don't have to break in the mags by shooting one full load 100 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirki,
     Sounds like a winner, but it would be more fun to keep shooting 100 times.
Blackie
I completely agree.  Definitely more fun.  Better practice too.  OTOH, a couple of wooden dowel rods are a lot less expensive than 700 rounds of ammo.  :D

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


Kirk,
     That is what my wife keeps telling me, but when I go to the range, she comes too, and shoots The R51 more than I do.  Go figure!
Blackie
   
Groovy!  :D

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: ZeroPoint on February 05, 2017, 08:43:22 AM
I had this same issue with my new R51, it was almost impossible to rack on a full mag. and if I did get it back it would jam on the first round because it had been pressed into a nose down position in the mag. just by pulling the slide back, the round gets stuck there and causes a jam. I shot about 500 rds. and nothing got better so I took a mag. apart and examined it, I compared it to a few other mags from different guns I have, I decided the spring was too heavy so I cut 2 coils off 1 mag. spring and put it back together, now it loads better and the gun can now be racked on a full mag. and will chamber the first round. I have shot a few hundred rds. like this and no problems so far. So does anyone make weaker springs for the R51?
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on February 06, 2017, 03:00:34 AM
I decided the spring was too heavy so I cut 2 coils off 1 mag. spring and put it back together, now it loads better and the gun can now be racked on a full mag. and will chamber the first round. I have shot a few hundred rds. like this and no problems so far.

Cutting the spring has been mentioned before, but IMO it is sacrificing long term reliability for a quick fix. People can do whatever they want, but the spring will break in on it's own. I'm pretty sure the engineers used that spring for a reason. No coils cut and mine now racks fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNSocr4ivWA
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: sirbrian on February 08, 2017, 12:37:17 PM
I mentioned this before. A loaded magazine in my gun cannot be racked even with the spring removed. The bullets fill up the magazine too much. I  removed 0.2" from the follower and that solved the jamming issue. I also removed 2 coils of the spring because it because the coils looked way too long for the magazine.

I did this to one of the mags and tried it for several months and about 400 rounds. Still works with no issues and easy to rack. Just did the second mag and it works well.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: luteai on February 08, 2017, 03:52:11 PM
two full coils? I guess I'll try one and if it doesn't rack take another. Pretty poor quality control from Remington. Glad my 783 works well!
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on February 09, 2017, 05:37:00 AM
I mentioned this before. A loaded magazine in my gun cannot be racked even with the spring removed. The bullets fill up the magazine too much. I  removed 0.2" from the follower and that solved the jamming issue. I also removed 2 coils of the spring because it because the coils looked way too long for the magazine.

I did this to one of the mags and tried it for several months and about 400 rounds. Still works with no issues and easy to rack. Just did the second mag and it works well.

sirbrian,
     I just bought a new mag and took the follower out and took 3/16ths off the legs.  Left the spring alone.  Now my R51 will rack from a closed slide.
I will shoot it Monday, and see how it runs.  It seems that the follower legs are too long and jam up the ammo against the breech block.  When I press down
on an unmodified mag, the ammo will not depress with a full load.  The modified mag lets the ammo depress the amount I took off the legs on the follower.
Mag release button is easier to activate also.
Blackie 
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on February 09, 2017, 01:05:15 PM
I had pulled my mag apart and took the spring put like sirbrian mentioned and then put 7 rounds in it. The breech block never touched the round. So based on that and what 1911SHOOTER posted, it looks like there may be some tolerance differences. I see no problems with shaving down the follower a bit, but I still personally would not cut coils off of the spring. I have a few thousand rounds though mine now, and it's now easy to rack with a full mag. 
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on February 09, 2017, 02:32:16 PM
I had pulled my mag apart and took the spring put like sirbrian mentioned and then put 7 rounds in it. The breech block never touched the round. So based on that and what 1911SHOOTER posted, it looks like there may be some tolerance differences. I see no problems with shaving down the follower a bit, but I still personally would not cut coils off of the spring. I have a few thousand rounds though mine now, and it's now easy to rack with a full mag.

Tex,
     Follow up on my last post.  I can now rack the closed slide with 7 in the mag.  I feel that there is still some lapse in the quality control in the
weapon.  Or rather in the breech block.  Although My mags work now, when I insert a fully loaded mag in the firearm, with the slide closed, and then remove it,
the top round is pushed forward.  The other day, when I removed the mag, the top round popped out.  Go Figure!
Blackie 
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on February 10, 2017, 12:34:13 AM
As I noted earlier or in another thread, the R51 mags have relatively short feed lips compared to some of my other guns. I don't find it unusual for the top round to move a little forward when the mag is removed on any gun. While I have not had any rounds pop out on the R51, I have had it happen with my Browning 1911-380  which also has very short feed lips.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on February 10, 2017, 01:18:56 AM
As I noted earlier or in another thread, the R51 mags have relatively short feed lips compared to some of my other guns. I don't find it unusual for the top round to move a little forward when the mag is removed on any gun. While I have not had any rounds pop out on the R51, I have had it happen with my Browning 1911-380  which also has very short feed lips.

Tex,
     How is that Browning .380 working for you.  I have the RIA Baby Rock, 1911 .380 and it is a keeper!  Not a problem at all yet. 
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on February 12, 2017, 05:17:08 AM
The Browning 1911-380 is by far one of the best .380 guns I have ever owned. You can literally rack it with two fingers. Recoil is almost non existent and it is very light due to the polymer frame.

Now I did have an issue with the mags (all of them), but found that closing up the feed lips a few thousandths solved the problem. 
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on February 12, 2017, 09:22:01 AM
The Browning 1911-380 is by far one of the best .380 guns I have ever owned. You can literally rack it with two fingers. Recoil is almost non existent and it is very light due to the polymer frame.

Now I did have an issue with the mags (all of them), but found that closing up the feed lips a few thousandths solved the problem.

Tex.
My Baby Rock has a stiff slide, but if it doesn't loosen up, I may sent it back to Ivan to adjust the return spring. Otherwise,
it is a keeper, like your Browning.


Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: JimBonfanti on March 03, 2017, 01:45:30 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.

Does anyone know how to take apart the magazine?
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: lklawson on March 03, 2017, 02:04:25 AM
Same experience here with breaking in the mags.

Does anyone know how to take apart the magazine?
https://www.remington.com/sites/default/files/documents/R51_MANUAL_REV_12-2015_FINAL_sm.pdf

Pages 21-23.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: JimBonfanti on March 04, 2017, 01:04:00 AM
Thanks. Somehow I missed that.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: DanOh on March 09, 2017, 11:33:53 PM
In that other thread, I showed the wood block I use to make disassembly and assembly easier. So far it has been working fine for me. But if I had the tools and patience, I would make something shaped like this made out of polymer. It would fit into the chamber and the top would rest on the slide like my wood block (needs to let the breech block move freely). Having it in the chamber would result in less chance of it slipping out like the wood block can do if you are not careful. Once the slide is on, you just pull the slide back and dump it out. It would also be the right length to have the take down lever lined up.

Sorry for the poor drawing as I never claimed to be an artist.  :)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/21ezuv5.jpg)

That looks like a loaded chamber indicator.  Wouldn't it be nice to find one that could be modified to fit as you described?  I'm going to start looking.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: JimBonfanti on May 06, 2017, 01:00:05 AM
You are spot on Texas-Mark. If you load it with some zip a full mag isn't a problem. You can't be bashful or it will jam. I'm going to also try your tip on polishing the breech block. I've had mine for a few months and haven't had any issues.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Rog54 on May 08, 2017, 11:17:53 AM
I must be one of the lucky ones.  I have one mag modified,  the mod someone posted here.  And one not.  I have had virtually no problems either way but I do concur you must be positive with the racking to the extent of occasionally helping it forward.  However, the other way mentioned on this forum works great, starting with the slide back.  I also tap my full mags on the table top to make sure the bullets are to the back causing them to orient properly, especially that first round the if ignored may try to nose dive. 
Rog
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: sirbrian on May 14, 2017, 12:38:14 AM
I'll chime in once more. Mine could not rack with a full mag. I removed the spring and loaded the mag and it still would not rack all the way back. the bullets filled up the mag too close to the top. I cut 2 tenths of an inch off the bottom of the follower and that did the trick. I checked the spring and it was very much mashed too tight with a full mag. I removed two coils. My coils were over twice the length of the mag. It now racks and works great through over 500 rounds, no fails. A properly designed spring has a linear operating region and squashing it too much is actually damaging it. Springs don't need breaking in when used properly. They do eventually wear out from use. My opinion is that these mags were designed improperly.
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on May 14, 2017, 12:53:53 AM
. Springs don't need breaking in when used properly. They do eventually wear out from use. My opinion is that these mags were designed improperly.

And I'll chime in again too that I own MANY guns and nearly all have very stiff mag springs when new until they take a set. This is a well known fact in the gun community. So far you are the only person here who has needed to cut the mag springs. Some have trimmed the follower a bit which is fine. But unless you had the wrong springs to begin with or installed then wrong,  all you have done is caused your mag to be less reliable in the long term. And 500 rounds is nothing. I often shoot that many in one day. If cutting the spring works for you, that fine. But I urge others to be more patient, as this is not the way to fix the problem (if there even is a problem).

And once again here it the link to my unmodified mags. Sort of hard to say they were designed wrong when they work just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7exqqu7piA&app=desktop
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on May 14, 2017, 12:59:28 AM
. Springs don't need breaking in when used properly. They do eventually wear out from use. My opinion is that these mags were designed improperly.

And I'll chime in again too that I own MANY guns and nearly all have very stiff mag springs when new until they take a set. This is a well known fact in the gun community. So far you are the only person here who has needed to cut the mag springs. Some have trimmed the follower a bit which is fine. But unless you had the wrong springs to begin with or installed then wrong,  all you have done is caused your mag to be less reliable in the long term. And 500 rounds is nothing. I often shoot that many in one day. If cutting the spring works for you, that fine. But I urge others to be more patient, as this is not the way to fix the problem (if there even is a problem).


Tex,
      I have seen several posts on here from shooters who took a loop or two off the mag springs  I have three mags, and trimmed the spring on one of them as a test.   I also trimmed the followers.
So far my R51 is going great guns (pun intended). 
Blackie
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: Texas-Mark on May 14, 2017, 06:17:49 AM
Tex,
      I have seen several posts on here from shooters who took a loop or two off the mag springs 

I just did a search, and those were all posted by the same person (except for the one you mentioned you did as a test)
Title: Re: Racking with a full mag
Post by: 1911SHOOTER on May 14, 2017, 01:30:40 PM
Tex,
      I have seen several posts on here from shooters who took a loop or two off the mag springs 

I just did a search, and those were all posted by the same person (except for the one you mentioned you did as a test)

Tex,
     I stand corrected.
Blackie