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Author Topic: Magazine quality control.  (Read 1809 times)

1911SHOOTER

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Magazine quality control.
« on: December 16, 2017, 09:06:54 AM »
I have 7 R51 magazines.
Number #1   i had to clip the spring and take 3/16s off the follower.
same for mag #2..
#3 took 3/16 off the follower.
#4 and #5 had to straighten lip on the mag.
#6 straighten lip on mag and take 3/16 off the follower.
#7 straighten lip on mag.
It would seem like whoever is making the mags for Big Green would have
enough pride in their work to make them consistent.   Love the gun.
hate their mags.
And Big Green does not seem to give a rat's butt!
Blackie
 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:33:40 AM by 1911SHOOTER »
So many guns, so little time!

R51Fan2017

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »
Blackie,

They don't care.........they just send a freebe in the mail to anyone who complains. What ticks me off is that this isn't the first automatic handgun they have made. It isn't that hard to get a magazine right. Ughhhh :(
"A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

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funflyer

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 12:15:20 PM »
I thought I read somewhere that Remington was once an ISO 9001 certified manufacturing facility. A quality system would never allow non-conforming parts to make it to customers in the numbers we're seeing with these magazines. I'm guessing that they couldn't pass a quality audit today to save their life and are no longer operating to ISO standards.

R51Fan2017

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 01:00:46 PM »
The last freebe mag I got from the Big Green was the worst so far. Incomplete weld at the bottom tip of the mag, and a tab that was bent WAY to far inward the mag, worse than I have seen. It looked like someone took pliers and bent it all the way in. So I took the needlenose, and bent it back out straight. QC at the Big Green has gone to heck in a handbasket.
"A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

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funflyer

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 12:59:32 AM »
The last freebe mag I got from the Big Green was the worst so far. Incomplete weld at the bottom tip of the mag, and a tab that was bent WAY to far inward the mag, worse than I have seen. It looked like someone took pliers and bent it all the way in. So I took the needlenose, and bent it back out straight. QC at the Big Green has gone to heck in a handbasket.


I wonder if some of these mags that they're sending out as replacements were customer returns that just got reinspected and adjusted.
Did your replacements come packaged like new ones or loose in in the mailer?


R51Fan2017

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 02:33:09 AM »

I wonder if some of these mags that they're sending out as replacements were customer returns that just got reinspected and adjusted.
Did your replacements come packaged like new ones or loose in in the mailer?

No it came loose in the mailer.
"A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

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1911SHOOTER

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 03:33:30 AM »
Both of mine came loose in the mailer also.
Blackie
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 01:45:04 PM by 1911SHOOTER »
So many guns, so little time!

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 04:32:28 AM »
 My R51 Smoke came with two mags.      On #6 I had to trim the bottom of the follower
in order to be able to load the 7th round.. still had the nose dive problem.
I took #6 and #7 and swapped the guts in them.   The problem followed
the guts.  Now #7 nose dives and #6 is fine.   Any thoughts?
Only two suspects left, the slope of the follower or the spring.
Can't do any thing to the slope of the follower,  Maybe trim a loop off the
spring? Doubtful.
Only four parts in the magazine, the follower, the spring, the end plate and
base pad.  And the shell itself!   Not much I can do about that though.
Blackie
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:43:45 AM by 1911SHOOTER »
So many guns, so little time!

R51Fan2017

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 05:34:52 AM »
My R51 Smoke came with two mags.      On #6 I had to trim the bottom of the follower
in order to be able to load the 7th round.. still had the nose dive problem.
I took #6 and #7 and swapped the guts in them.   The problem followed
the guts.  Now #7 nose dives and #6 is fine.   Any thoughts?
Only two suspects left, the slope of the follower or the spring.
Can't do any thing to the slope of the follower,  Maybe trim a loop off the
spring? Doubtful.
Only four parts in the magazine, the follower, the spring, the end plate and
base pad.  And the shell itself!   Not much I can do about that though.
Blackie

Blackie,

Hold your R51 mag up next to your 1911 mags. You will see they are exactly the same width. Why Remington designed a 9mm mag to be the same width as a .45 I have no idea. Also, look through the holes in the side. You will see that the bullets are able to have quite a bit of side to side movement inside the mag, as opposed to your 1911 mags. Why Reminton, why??
"A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                  - Larry Elder

FlatEarther

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 05:46:16 AM »

[/quote]
Hold your R51 mag up next to your 1911 mags. You will see they are exactly the same width. Why Remington designed a 9mm mag to be the same width as a .45 I have no idea. Also, look through the holes in the side. You will see that the bullets are able to have quite a bit of side to side movement inside the mag, as opposed to your 1911 mags. Why Reminton, why??
[/quote]

Noticed that too. Thinking to offer different caliber in the future using the same frame?... Joe

1911SHOOTER

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 07:23:26 AM »
FlatEarther,
     Nice call, except for one thing.   The inward grooves down each side of the mag
preclude anything larger than 9 mil sliding down the mags.    I am going to try to find
some similar springs,My Ria 9MM mags are a good candidate, and I can cut
them down to size.    I get a "Click" every once in a while with a tough seventh
cartridge hard to load, and the the cartridge pops in!  Spring over lap maybe?
And maybe find a machinist who can make an aluminum follower.
Be nice to be able to file any problem causing lumps away huh?
Then spread the info on the follower  here.
Blackie 
So many guns, so little time!

FlatEarther

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 07:42:58 AM »
Blackie, to clarify I'm talking the size of the the mag well in the gun frame, not the 9mm magazine itself.
R51Fan is kinda asking why the mag well is oversized for 9mm?
A good question... Joe


« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 07:46:00 AM by FlatEarther »

Chokejug

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 07:45:52 AM »
Blackie, I have one of those "only six" mags as well.
It is #1 or 2, forget which right now.

Though it doesnt really matter, they both came with the first pistol. They have both had the followers trimed, the only 2 of five that needed it.

Load 6 and it "sometimes" come up tight.
Mess with it enough and it will let out a loud enough "click" for this deaf old man to hear and feel, and #7 round will slip right in.  Either way, they all work fine now when used in the guns.

One of the other 3 only needed that follower stop adjusted, no other modifications needed at all.

BTW, loving that RIA with the .22 TCM barrel!

R51Fan2017

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 07:51:54 AM »
Blackie, to clarify I'm talking the size of the the mag well in the gun frame, not the 9mm magazine itself.
R51Fan is kinda asking why the mag well is oversized for 9mm?
A good question... Joe

Joe,

You are barking up the right tree when I was talking about mag size. You are still further correct to say that the mag WELL is oversized for 9mm. Go get a 1911 mag and stick it up the R51's well. Not only does it fit in there, but you also have wiggle room to spare........
"A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                  - Larry Elder

funflyer

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Re: Magazine quality control.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 09:24:50 AM »
Blackie, I believe you're on to the culprit, the follower. I haven't done any testing but have my suspicions.  I think one of two things could be the root cause of the feed issues, both during firing and the first round racking ability.

First are the follower's flat bottom feet. They could very well be catching on the spring coils during compression and not allowing the spring to stack smoothly into the follower, or forcing one coil to double up inside another which would cause uneven tension on the follower from front to back.

Next is the looseness of the follower inside the mag which causes it to rock up in the front, down in the back or vise versa when pressure is applied. I compared this to one of my Shield's magazines. With any number of rounds loaded, it was easier to push the nose of the top round downward and further into the R51's mag than it was with the Shield's. Spring pressure could have something to do with the results as the Shield's spring is much tougher.

Now the kicker...I dropped the Shield's follower into the R51's mag, yes it fit and pretty well so i assembled the mag using the S&W follower. Now doing the same push test, the round's nose couldn't be pushed down as far as before, close but not as far. I loaded 7 rounds into the hybrid mag and the R51 manually fed and ejected every one just as well as the original. Tried it again with 7+1 and it worked also. The only issue is the follower is shorter and shaped different enough that it won't make contact with the slide stop. Next time I hit the range I'm going to test to see if the pistol will function reliably with the S&W follower. I'd sure like to test this using a known problematic magazine though.

Now, to correct the first issue, if it is indeed the follower feet catching the spring coils, a simple taper of the follower's feet using an exacto knife on the inside could help. For the slop/play issue, a new follower made from a less flexible material, like your aluminum idea, would be needed.

Anyway, that's my 2cents. Something to think about.

 

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