December 10, 2018, 03:11:00 AM
* *

Menu

Members
  • Total Members: 230
  • Latest: jestr4
Stats
  • Total Posts: 4041
  • Total Topics: 577
  • Online Today: 9
  • Online Ever: 73
  • (April 26, 2015, 12:58:20 AM)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 4
Total: 4
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 10, 2018, 03:11:00 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Firing pin fail  (Read 6345 times)

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Firing pin fail
« on: September 16, 2016, 06:43:06 AM »
Wells piffle! I was at the range doing two shot string drills when I started getting light strikes and clicks. I disassembled the gun there on site and found that the firing pin, inside the Pederson block, was acting sticky. It would go forward and not retract and not want to go forward as far as it should, binding up or jamming on something apparently. I haven't disassembled it yet, and may not at all, but my current guess is that a bit of detritus somehow got in the firing pin Channel or, less likely, that the firing pin spring has somehow gotten wonked up. I will be pulling it down and taking a closer look at it here very shortly.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

DanOh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2016, 01:18:59 AM »
Have you tried to clean it without taking it apart??  When I clean my R51, I spray GunScrubber in through the front of the block and into the firing pin mechanism.  I get a lot of burnt powder out doing it that way.  The solution runs out around the extractor and I flush it until it runs clean. I use compressed air and blow it dry afterwards.  I have not seen any recommendation to apply any lube to it, some advise to apply a drop of oil to the firing pin channel and some say don't do it.  I'd try cleaning it before taking it apart.  Remington recommends not taking your gun apart any more than the standard take down for cleaning, may or may not affect warranty of the part.

GONRA

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2016, 08:33:53 AM »
Picky Picky GONRA reminds ya'll that its "Pedersen".   "e" not "o".

As ya'll no, he designed all sorts of crazy stuff.

For example, most of you probably have the "Pedersen Device".
(Don't we wish!)

Do hava   ".276 Vickers Pedersen" 10 shot semiauto rifle +
6 (try to find even ONE of these!) enbloc clips.

(Shoots great - BUT REMEMBER LUBRICATED ammo cases!
Pedersen shoulda invented the "fluted chamber " to avoid this!
Oh Well.....)


lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 12:31:09 AM »
Have you tried to clean it without taking it apart??  When I clean my R51, I spray GunScrubber in through the front of the block and into the firing pin mechanism.  I get a lot of burnt powder out doing it that way.  The solution runs out around the extractor and I flush it until it runs clean. I use compressed air and blow it dry afterwards.  I have not seen any recommendation to apply any lube to it, some advise to apply a drop of oil to the firing pin channel and some say don't do it.  I'd try cleaning it before taking it apart.  Remington recommends not taking your gun apart any more than the standard take down for cleaning, may or may not affect warranty of the part.
I ended up using PB Blaster.  Soaked it over night.  Same result.  There is an obstruction in the firing pin channel, 99%.  1% chance that the firing pin spring got kinked somehow.

Gonna have to call Rem today.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 12:33:06 AM »
Picky Picky GONRA reminds ya'll that its "Pedersen".   "e" not "o".
Notice that "(mobile)" tag?  I was posting via mobile, dictating to Google speech recognition.  Feel free to report the issue to Google.  They like to be able to correct software errors.

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 02:35:51 AM »
Called Remington.  This is the result:

I will be sending it back in, on their dime, for warranty work.

When I specifically asked, the tech, a nice enough gent named "Tirey," told me that I could drive out the retaining pin myself and that it shouldn't cause issues.  However, he was also very eager for me to send it in for warranty work "since it's still under warranty anyway."  He insisted that their turnaround time on R51's is very short.  I conjecture that this attitude is Remington's desire to be as proactive as possible.  They know they got a massive black eye the first time and can't afford the negative PR for a second go 'round.  So just get the customer to send it in for warranty work instead of trying to do it himself because it'll give Remington the opportunity to give the gun a thorough inspection and proactively service.  Good on them.  But being without my gun for a few weeks will still bug me.  OTOH, I have, literally, somewhere around a solid dozen CC alternatives sitting in my safe.  So for the next couple of weeks, I'll go back to CCing with my Kel Tecs for 9mm carry.

To be clear, at the moment I believe that the issue is almost certainly an obstruction in the firing pin channel.  A bit of brass or lead or something got in there.  This would not be a the gun's fault.  That crap just happens sometimes to every brand gun.  My big concern was, could I drive out that pin myself or is there some sort of mechanical lock on the pin which ruins it and would require a replacement pin (or worse, the Pedersen block) should an amateur drive it out.  According to the tech, no.  A DIY'er can do it without issues.

I'll keep you advised.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

DanOh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 11:50:17 PM »
Good to hear Remington's response.  As you said they want to look at these problems just in case and being proactive about customer concerns.  My gut tells me that you will have your gun back sooner than most would think.  Also good to know that Remington doesn't have a problem with taking the block apart as I would figure now and then that most would want to do that for a good cleaning every 1000 rounds or so.  Looking forward to hearing the results from the Dr. visit.  I'd miss mine too already, it goes with me to the range every time I go even if I take another pistol or two.  I just love shooting it.  Thanks for the post.

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 12:08:59 AM »
So I'm getting a new gun.  Got a call last night from Remington offering either a refund or a replacement. 

Why?

I had the gun apart.  I KNOW that the only physical problem with it was the Firing Pin binding.  I know that the only two possible causes of this are either a bound up Firing Pin Spring or an obstruction in the Firing Pin Channel in the Pedersen Block.  The fix is to either clean the Firing Pin Channel or replace the spring.  At worst, if there was a weird manufacturing defect in the Pedersen Block, you just replace the whole part, not the whole gun.  So why replace the whole gun?  I kept careful watch on wear at the high contact parts and, while yes there was expected wear, there was not excessive wear, to say nothing of dangerous amounts.

These are the possibilities that occur to me.

1) There is a dramatic and horrible design or manufacturing flaw in the gun which I didn't see.  Remington wants to keep it a secret so they're just offering a refund or replacement.  Doubt it. If there were a horrible flaw, they wouldn't offer to just send me another gun straight off the line.

2) The repair technician at Mark's Outdoor Sports (the "Authorized Service Center" where my gun was sent for repair) screwed up horribly and damaged the gun so bad that it just makes sense to replace it.  If it were a car, they'd Total it.  I guess this is a real possibility, but it just doesn't pass the sniff test.

3) No one likes a 6 week turnaround.  Yes, that's how long Mark's Outdoor Sports reported to me that it would take.  OK, that's an irritatingly long time but I have other guns.  While annoying, it doesn't make me see red and want to go postal in a Remington office or anything.  But Remington is still taking a lot of crap about the R51.  People, even here on HPFF within the last 24 hours, referred to it as an "abortion."  So it may be that Remington is desperately trying to reduce the negative publicity and make customers a little bit more happy by doing anything they can to keep turnaround time down on guns sent in for service.  Given the other things Remington has done to try to make customers happy and reduce negative press, this possibility makes the most sense to me.

So I'm getting a new R51.  Remington says they'll pay FFL fees but what that actually means is that they'll reimburse me.  I didn't send in my magazines so I'll essentially be getting two free mags, which run $30@.  OK. 

Should be in to my FFL in a week or two.  :P

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

SCurmudgeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 07:37:43 AM »
Maybe Remington wants to keep your old pistol for further failure analysis.

I'm sure you'll let us know how your new pistol performs.  I will also be curious to know if there are any magazine modifications, although I think it is probably too soon to expect those to be rolling out of production.

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2016, 02:51:22 AM »
Maybe Remington wants to keep your old pistol for further failure analysis.
I dunno.

I called the "Authorized Service Center" that it was sent to: Mark's Outdoor.  I wanted to talk to the tech who had diagnosed it.  He wasn't in at the time and didn't leave good notes.  All I know is that it was sent back to the factory.  :P

Quote
I'm sure you'll let us know how your new pistol performs.
I'll have to break it in again.  Hopefully it'll run as well as the former.

Quote
I will also be curious to know if there are any magazine modifications, although I think it is probably too soon to expect those to be rolling out of production.
Probably too soon, yeah.  But I'm certain to look.  :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

1911SHOOTER

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 665
  • U.S.Navy
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2016, 06:51:40 AM »
Have you tried to clean it without taking it apart??  When I clean my R51, I spray GunScrubber in through the front of the block and into the firing pin mechanism.  I get a lot of burnt powder out doing it that way.  The solution runs out around the extractor and I flush it until it runs clean. I use compressed air and blow it dry afterwards.  I have not seen any recommendation to apply any lube to it, some advise to apply a drop of oil to the firing pin channel and some say don't do it.  I'd try cleaning it before taking it apart.  Remington recommends not taking your gun apart any more than the standard take down for cleaning, may or may not affect warranty of the part.
I ended up using PB Blaster.  Soaked it over night.  Same result.  There is an obstruction in the firing pin channel, 99%.  1% chance that the firing pin spring got kinked somehow.

Gonna have to call Rem today.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I would take the breech block to a gunsmith, if you know a good one. He will have the proper tools to take the firing pin out. The pins holding some of the R51
together will not move easily. I had the hammer pin sticking out a fraction, and bent a punch in it trying to put it back in all the way.
So many guns, so little time!

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2016, 12:57:46 AM »
Have you tried to clean it without taking it apart??  When I clean my R51, I spray GunScrubber in through the front of the block and into the firing pin mechanism.  I get a lot of burnt powder out doing it that way.  The solution runs out around the extractor and I flush it until it runs clean. I use compressed air and blow it dry afterwards.  I have not seen any recommendation to apply any lube to it, some advise to apply a drop of oil to the firing pin channel and some say don't do it.  I'd try cleaning it before taking it apart.  Remington recommends not taking your gun apart any more than the standard take down for cleaning, may or may not affect warranty of the part.
I ended up using PB Blaster.  Soaked it over night.  Same result.  There is an obstruction in the firing pin channel, 99%.  1% chance that the firing pin spring got kinked somehow.

Gonna have to call Rem today.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I would take the breech block to a gunsmith, if you know a good one. He will have the proper tools to take the firing pin out. The pins holding some of the R51
together will not move easily. I had the hammer pin sticking out a fraction, and bent a punch in it trying to put it back in all the way.
I ended up sending it in for service.  It got sent to Mark's Outdoor Sports who apparently decided it needed replacing.  Therefore, I have a brand new R51 (supposedly) on its way to the FFL of my choice.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

1911SHOOTER

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 665
  • U.S.Navy
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2016, 05:12:25 AM »
Have you tried to clean it without taking it apart??  When I clean my R51, I spray GunScrubber in through the front of the block and into the firing pin mechanism.  I get a lot of burnt powder out doing it that way.  The solution runs out around the extractor and I flush it until it runs clean. I use compressed air and blow it dry afterwards.  I have not seen any recommendation to apply any lube to it, some advise to apply a drop of oil to the firing pin channel and some say don't do it.  I'd try cleaning it before taking it apart.  Remington recommends not taking your gun apart any more than the standard take down for cleaning, may or may not affect warranty of the part.
I ended up using PB Blaster.  Soaked it over night.  Same result.  There is an obstruction in the firing pin channel, 99%.  1% chance that the firing pin spring got kinked somehow.

Gonna have to call Rem today.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I would take the breech block to a gunsmith, if you know a good one. He will have the proper tools to take the firing pin out. The pins holding some of the R51
together will not move easily. I had the hammer pin sticking out a fraction, and bent a punch in it trying to put it back in all the way.
I ended up sending it in for service.  It got sent to Mark's Outdoor Sports who apparently decided it needed replacing.  Therefore, I have a brand new R51 (supposedly) on its way to the FFL of my choice.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirk,
     Glad you are getting some relief. My R51 continues to truck on down the road, since I figured out the method to recycle a new loaded mag. 600 rounds and counting.
I trust the weapon enough to carry it now. (But I have my LCP in my leather lined back pocket)!
So many guns, so little time!

lklawson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 02:59:46 AM »
Glad you are getting some relief.
Honestly, I find it very odd.  There was nothing wrong with it that cleaning the firing pin channel or replacing a kinked firing pin spring wouldn't fix.  But it was still under warranty so I figured I'd let Remington do the work.  :)

Why replace the whole thing?  Oh well.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

springfield art

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Firing pin fail
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 05:55:52 AM »
My R51 has very strong firing pin action; the primer indent actually has a little ridge around it, like a moon crater, indicating a strong strike. Also, the pistol will fire with magazine removed!

 

Information

Bookmark and Share


The NRA is fighting for your 2nd amendment rights - You can help make a difference - your voice can be heard
Join the NRA

Recent Forum Post