Early in January one poster noted that Remington had told him/her that they had produced 50 re-designed R51s which had tested out so far but were still being tested. Pending a successful outcome they hoped to be producing pistols for sale in the first quarter of 2016. Has anyone else heard this or more recent news on the R51 re-release front?
Not me... I was kind of hoping that they would announce something at Shot Show but alas it's didn't happen...
I had called Remington a couple of weeks ago and heard the same about having 50 pistols produced and that they would be trial tested. I also understood that the testing would take as long as the first quarter of the year. However, the gentleman I spoke to also said that if the 50 pistols don't pass the trial test, Remington would no longer pursue manufacturing the firearm.
Quote from: divnbun on January 25, 2016, 04:31:16 PM
I had called Remington a couple of weeks ago and heard the same about having 50 pistols produced and that they would be trial tested. I also understood that the testing would take as long as the first quarter of the year. However, the gentleman I spoke to also said that if the 50 pistols don't pass the trial test, Remington would no longer pursue manufacturing the firearm.
The thing I find interesting is that the R51 showed up on Rmington's internet page a couple of months ago, but now it is gone again. That may tell the story.
Guys,
8:44 this morning - I was just called by a person at Remington that is in the know and I am once again excited about the R51... I told that person that I would not reveal all of the items about which we spoke or that person's identity, but was very pleased with the phone call and the genuine sincerity.
Yesterday I got to the point where I had heard enough, read enough, called enough, and emailed enough, that I was going to have to talk to someone. I wanted to talk to someone that could give me the info that will help me decide whether I should continue to hold on to the last thread of hope or write it off and look for the next closest 9mm that could match the way the R51 felt in my hands, it carried, concealed, the reduced recoil, and gave me the same enjoyment, and was just fun to shoot. So I started with a couple of more emails to some of the management departments with requests to be called. I called the Support phone number and was told the same pat answer that "it is being tested and there is no time line as to when it will be released into production". I asked to speak with her supervisor and was passed off to another nice lady that could not give me any more info. Again I asked to speak with her supervisor and was kindly told that would not be a problem and was thanked for calling and being so patient...then was transferred to another VM. Then I called Arkansas and talked to someone that worked in another department, that recommended I call a person in Huntsville, Alabama (that sounds good) in QC and gave me their direct phone number. Once again, I hit a road block and left a message on a Voice Mail. My last ditch effort before completely giving up and saying To Hell with Remington, was to send another email to an engineer that had responded to a previous email I sent 6 months ago. I asked in the email "well is it or is it not going to be released?". Previously he was not able to provide the answers, but he sent my email to his boss and replied with the response that was provided to him. It was what I thought to be the most honest from someone that appeared to really represent the truth about the situation. But alas, not even a receipt that he had received my email this time. That was yesterday.
8:44 this morning - I was just called by a person at Remington that is in the know and I am once again excited about the R51. The last person I emailed yesterday, sent my email up the chain to someone that truly cares about the image of the company for which he works. That person told me the testing that has been going on has been extremely successful and the R51 WILL be going back into production. There is one single part that was holding up the final acceptance, but the final tweaking was done in December so that it would comply with the requirements. Had it not been acceptable, they would have had to redesign the tooling for the frame. Those requirements are based off of a maximum amount of rounds that it is designed to handle for the expected life of the pistol before any part has to be replaced. All of the production line new R51 pistols are being shot each day and then evaluated, then put through the same testing again and again until they have been tested to meet those maximum amount of rounds.
Being as frustrated as all of us who are still hanging on to the possibility that the R51 will be corrected and re released, I felt much better after the conversation. I was told the decision as to the actual release date will only be made after all of the testing is completed, and the testing is much more strenuous than ever before on any model. Similarly, the new RM380 also was supposed to be released several months prior to its actual release date, but was delayed because of the additional QC that done in the tooling tolerances and testing that had to meet the approval of the engineers first. We discussed some of the posts being published on the forums about several conspiracy theories: "Remington has been leading people on to reduce the financial impact of having to reimburse its consumers all at the same time"..."The new pistols in design will be issued to replace the R51"...etc., etc. We discussed several of the issues I have posted on this forum. I had run over 800 rounds through the one that I returned and it was functioning fine. My biggest issue was it was showing some minor wear on the Disconnector. I was told the design of the final part that was accepted in December 2015, before the new R51 was approved by their engineers to comply with the design requirements. The new version of the R51 with all of its approved parts functioning the way it is supposed to, (and I assume with the new improved parts shown during the Shot Show 2015) is in the final firing testing and WILL BE GOING INTO PRODUCTION as soon as these tests are completed. Doing some "cipherin" on my own...at 65 rounds a day, if they are shooting a total of 5000 rounds, that would equal 77 days of shooting, (without including any days for tolerance evaluation, checking for wear on the barrel, slide, trigger, disconnector, ejector, etc.) and at 21 working days in a month, that is three and a half months. Since the redesign of the final part was approved in December, then that pushes the testing completion at least into April or May at a minimum.
I explained there are a lot of diehard Remington R51 loyal consumers that have still been waiting, (either patiently optimistic because we are smart enough to know that when something is rushed, mistakes are caused; or pretty darn stupid, because why would any smart person remain optimistic after being patient so long) but their frustration level is reaching its peak and even some of them are already changing their brand. If what I was told is factual, (and I believe it is) we will have our replacements this year (hopefully this summer). The conversation also included talk about several other launches that are in the works...but will not be released until the engineers testing is completed on the production line pieces first. We spoke for 18 minutes and 44 seconds. Later this morning, I noticed I had received a reply at 9:12 from the engineer fellow that I emailed as my last ditch effort yesterday:
"I am sorry to hear that you are still unable to resolve your customer service issue regarding your R51. I have forwarded your entire message to my boss who will do what can be done to obtain additional information; when I receive a reply, I will pass it on to you."
Still hoping to be a future R51, Gen 2 Beta Tester,
T3
Thank you very much for this update. I sincerely hope the info from Remington is correct.
Thanks for the update. If this thing does materialize I will be a Gen 2 beta tester.
It has all the features that would make it the perfect single stack 9mm carry pistol for me.
If it works. Great!!! I got what I wanted.
If not.... Well some years from now my Son would have a very rare gun added to his inheritance.
Win win in my book.
My Kahr cm9 can fill the role ether way.
I really do want one of these as well. I have been following this soap opera for a few years now.
How do we keep up to date on the latest steps being taken to start selling the R51?
Thanks for the update T3:
Well that's encouraging but it has been a long haul. That said the balance between optimism and pessimism is about even now the only thing I have now is patience.
I'm getting pessimistic. I know others have been waiting longer, I'm just not hopeful after all the delays and lack of communication by Remington. I honestly regret sending mine in.
Still waitin' and hopin' . I haven't heard anything further myself, but am pleased to read about some movement forward here on R51 Pistol Forum. I wouldn't worry about Remington eventually making things right, even though I am in full agreement that they have been negligent and even incompetent in clearly communicating with customers. To their credit, they did offer some immediate remedies when the pistols were first "recalled," including a 1911 replacement (though still a Remington) which listed for a higher price than the R51. The offer of a replacement R51 with perks was too optimistic and in hindsight a foolish gesture. I imagine they have granted refunds to anyone who reasonably pursues one.... Has anyone dealt with Remington recently regarding this? Just curious.
I again stress that I am confident they will get it right the second time.
I saw a show on tv about personal defense training and the girl going through the course was a remington employee. She was using an R51. I think it was on the Sportsman channel. Should be close to getting them back.
Quote from: gunsnwater on February 24, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
I saw a show on tv about personal defense training and the girl going through the course was a remington employee. She was using an R51. I think it was on the Sportsman channel. Should be close to getting them back.
Sure hope so. I'm past ready.
Anyone have any idea how many were returned, e.g. how long the line is for those of us waiting once they start shipping?
I saw that also, it was Gun Talk - had to rewind it and watch it again... Thing is you just don't know when that was filmed. I'll take is as a good omen though. ;)
I find it disappointing they were able to design and produce a new 380 pistol before addressing the R51 issues.
Guys,
I saw this on another website today. . .
Just got this back today from Remington.
"Good morning,
That gun is schedule for the second quarter of this year. It has been approved and sometime during the second quarter is when we will start shipping them."
It sounds like the rep with whom I spoke at the first of February was correct!
Still hoping to be a R51, Gen 2 Beta Tester this year,
T3
As of April 8 2016, the official stance is "there's currently no timeline". The guy I spoke with on the phone said he "heard" they were testing them, but hasn't actually seen one or knew about a timeline. I honestly felt he was trying to keep me from taking the r1 offer more than he actually believed they were making a gen 2 - just my gut.
I took the r1 offer.
At least you got someone who would talk to you. They hung up on me last Friday afternoon.
I'm beginning to look into taking Remington to small claims court. It turns out they are owned by a holding company located in England, The Freedom Group http://www.freedom-group.com/. This may be the problem, this is an investment group and only cares about making money, and doesn't care one iota about customer service.
Quote from: RED HORSE on April 11, 2016, 08:36:59 PM
At least you got someone who would talk to you. They hung up on me last Friday afternoon.
I'm beginning to look into taking Remington to small claims court.
Please do this. Post up all the proceedings and then how much you have to pay in court fines.
QuoteIt turns out they are owned by a holding company located in England, The Freedom Group http://www.freedom-group.com/. This may be the problem, this is an investment group and only cares about making money, and doesn't care one iota about customer service.
Everyone has known for ages that Freedom Group "holds" Remington. It was big news years ago when it happened. And, restrain your shock, but companies are in business to make money. Only the Government is OK with just giving away money and running at a continual deficit.
Guys and Gals,
10:22AM on 06/10/2016 - The R51 production team has a BIG announcement coming up about the release date for the Gen 2. Keep your eyes open for a barrage of electronic information to the loyal R51 owners and an eblast to announce the re-launch to the rest of the gun world in the next few weeks. The approvals have all been made, the suppliers are all on board, the plant is fabricating (has already built 100's, tested and proved reliable) and distribution is preparing to package them to send out the first ones to those that have stuck it out and have been loyal (although exasperated) to Remington. From what I have been told over the past few months about how it has been thoroughly tested and painstakingly inspected, this next version is going to be GREAT! The redesign and the durability of the Gen 2 will extend its longevity to make it an heirloom for generations to come...like its predecessor the Model 51. If you sent your original R51 back for the voluntary recall repairs and have been waiting like I have for almost 2 years...the wait is almost over. It will be so nice to be able to talk about the performance of the new Remington R51 - Generation 2 Pistol and put behind us all of the other conspiracy stuff that has been posted on this forum. It is rather apropos that this re-release will happen in their 200th year anniversary. I will be honest that I have also been skeptical, but have hoped what I was being told was correct (even though the time line kept getting pushed back until they could make sure it met their QC requirements...this time).
Congratulations to Mr. Marcotuli for having the tenacity to verify the quality of every single one the details, and to the Remington engineers, designers, and mechanics that have worked to get it right before the marketers are allowed to hype it up. I hope this has been a lesson learned for all gun makers, albeit there could have been some improvements on the communication side. And to the person that has kept me up to date (so I could keep you guys informed of the real facts) I am very appreciative.
Mine is being shipped! Soon to be an R51 Gen 2 Beta tester,
T3
Quote from: T3 on June 10, 2016, 11:16:47 AM
The redesign and the durability of the Gen 2 will extend its longevity to make it an heirloom for generations to come...like its predecessor the Model 51.
I would like to hope that this mean steel-on-steel contact for the locking shoulder. Throughout this affair, I have learned that abandoning hope is the best strategy, though.
Well, hopefully the report is correct, but I will remain a skeptic until the package arrives at my door. Remington told me too many times it was coming in the "next quarter."
I'll be one of the first to place my order when and IF the things ever actually arrive. I can appreciate everyone's enthusiasm, but I share in the skepticism and cautious attitude of the venerable gun dogs here. It is certainly way too early to be handing out congratulations and passing the jug around.
I have deleted this guys account but left this post here in edited form so I can apologize to my members who had to see this and who reported this post.
I'll try and stay on top of this stuff better in the future.
Thanks
Robert