This article is generally positive and goes into excruciating detail regarding the Pederson block.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/)
Given how long we've been talking about magazine mods here, I thought this bit was interesting:
"...I was most interested in seeing how the new R51 shot... There were problems with the first two magazines. The pistol would not efficiently strip the top round out of the magazine and feed it into the chamber. After a fair amount of effort expended, including several trips to the range, I gave up and reported the problem to Remington.
In short order, I received new magazines. With a variety of ammunition, I headed back to the range and enjoyed a morning of completely trouble-free shooting. The gun functioned perfectly with the new magazines."
So Remington sent this guy 2 upgraded magazines. There is the old style with the thin base, and the new style with the thicker base that I assume was sent to the writer of this article. I have the new style mags, and have never had an issue with feeding correctly. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: armed citizen on September 22, 2017, 10:50:02 PM
So Remington sent this guy 2 upgraded magazines. There is the old style with the thin base, and the new style with the thicker base that I assume was sent to the writer of this article. I have the new style mags, and have never had an issue with feeding correctly. ;D ;D ;D
Citizen,
Every body on this blog presumably has the Gen II. And many of us had to modify our magazines to get the pistols to work.
"This Guy" compared the part numbers on the new mags with the original gen II mags and they were different, which tells me
that Remington got sneaky and upgraded the mags without telling the publiic.
Blackie
Old shooter, rookie at this forum. Glad y'all are here, because I've got the exact same problems.
Finding posts on this forum indicating the new mags have a DIFFERENT PART NUMBER is a huge red flag that Remington goofed, figured it out and fixed it, but stealthily took a "buyer beware" approach to buyers who took them at their word that the Gen 1 problems were fixed.
Why not send out replacement mags to owners and handle this the right way? Embarrassing, surely, but better to admit it openly and fix it gracefully.
I wrote Rem CS asking for 3 replacement mags (I'd bought a third one), and hope to get the "good stuff" this time.
In the meantime, I should remove about 3/16" from the bottoms of my mag followers to get proper use out of them?
Thanks for the link to the article! "Excruciating detail," yes, but the description of the "Pederson hesitation" lock finally gave me the clue I needed to understand why I had such difficulty reassembling the slide onto the frame. I could see on mine that the slots inside the slide (the ones that mate to the frame front rails) are actually obstructed by the Pederson Breech Block when the it is held in place by the barrel/spring (as shown in the Remington video). The Pederson breech block stops the slide right at the front rail due to its obstruction of the slots when I try to reassemble. I had thought the rails needed to be clear in order for the slide to go back onto the frame, but that's not quite right. You simply push and wiggle (the slide only—don't push on the barrel in any way) and the slide will move a tiny bit beyond the block while the block is held by the front edge of the frame rail. This allows the slide to push the block down same way as it does after firing (as described in the detailed section of the article on the Pederson action). The now dropped block clears the slots in the slide to allow it past the frame front rails. Best to be holding down the ejector as you do this, or it may pivot upwards and you have to start over.
Once I got a feel for it, it was easy to reassemble.
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on September 22, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
This article is generally positive and goes into excruciating detail regarding the Pederson block.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/)
Given how long we've been talking about magazine mods here, I thought this bit was interesting:
"...I was most interested in seeing how the new R51 shot... There were problems with the first two magazines. The pistol would not efficiently strip the top round out of the magazine and feed it into the chamber. After a fair amount of effort expended, including several trips to the range, I gave up and reported the problem to Remington.
In short order, I received new magazines. With a variety of ammunition, I headed back to the range and enjoyed a morning of completely trouble-free shooting. The gun functioned perfectly with the new magazines."
SCurmudgeon,
It is a comprehensive and well thought out article.
However, I do not see any of us getting a new set of magazines as rapidly as Mr. Wiley . (In short order)! Much less a "variety of ammunition".
Blackie
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on September 22, 2017, 01:36:15 PM
This article is generally positive and goes into excruciating detail regarding the Pederson block.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/22/second-chance-remington-s-revised-r51-pistol/)
Given how long we've been talking about magazine mods here, I thought this bit was interesting:
"...I was most interested in seeing how the new R51 shot... There were problems with the first two magazines. The pistol would not efficiently strip the top round out of the magazine and feed it into the chamber. After a fair amount of effort expended, including several trips to the range, I gave up and reported the problem to Remington.
In short order, I received new magazines. With a variety of ammunition, I headed back to the range and enjoyed a morning of completely trouble-free shooting. The gun functioned perfectly with the new magazines."
SCurmudgeon,
After further thought, All, or most of us have had the same problem that Wiley Clapp had with the mags. We cannot, like good ol' Wiley, call Remington and
say, Hi, I am a popular well respected writer of gun reviews, and I need a couple of new magazines, and presto, they are in the mail.
Remington should fess up and let us know one way or the other what they did to the magazines, or if they even did anything other than change part numbers.
Big Green is still keeping us in the dark. Pity their web page does not have a "Tell the CEO" button like Ruger's does.
Blackie
For what it may be worth, I talked with one of the Remington service people about two weeks ago. They told me the R51 magazines were not being shipped, due to the fact they are currently under evaluation. There were no other details related.
Quote from: neilin on September 26, 2017, 01:00:58 PM
For what it may be worth, I talked with one of the Remington service people about two weeks ago. They told me the R51 magazines were not being shipped, due to the fact they are currently under evaluation. There were no other details related.
Neilin,
So if they are not being shipped, that begs the question, How did ol' Wiley Clapp get two new ones so quickly.
Oh, forgot, he is a magazine writer.
Blackie
Quote from: neilin on September 26, 2017, 01:00:58 PM
For what it may be worth, I talked with one of the Remington service people about two weeks ago. They told me the R51 magazines were not being shipped, due to the fact they are currently under evaluation. There were no other details related.
The plot thickens...
I suppose the bean counters and execs are busy counting up the number of pistols sold and multiplying by the cost of new magazines times 2 before they are willing to admit [again] that they didn't have all of the kinks worked out last September.
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on September 28, 2017, 08:28:07 AMThe plot thickens...
I suppose the bean counters and execs are busy counting up the number of pistols sold and multiplying by the cost of new magazines times 2 before they are willing to admit [again] that they didn't have all of the kinks worked out last September.
That said, I have seen a couple of manufacturers release updated designs to magazines without recalling the old, giving out new for free, or even "admitting" to anything in particular.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Quote from: lklawson on September 28, 2017, 08:56:30 AM
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on September 28, 2017, 08:28:07 AMThe plot thickens...
I suppose the bean counters and execs are busy counting up the number of pistols sold and multiplying by the cost of new magazines times 2 before they are willing to admit [again] that they didn't have all of the kinks worked out last September.
That said, I have seen a couple of manufacturers release updated designs to magazines without recalling the old, giving out new for free, or even "admitting" to anything in particular.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Kirk,
I received an email from Remington telling me I would be receiving two magazines in the mail with a shipment date of 09/28.
The part number is F304502. WOnder when the mags will arrive. Could this be another year and a half wait?
Blackie
Thanks for the update.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
It was nice to read some good press coverage of the R51. It really is a cool design.
I received an email from Remington on 8/30 that the new mags were back ordered with no shipping date. Nothing since.
Quote from: LouisianaMan on September 23, 2017, 12:46:05 AM
Old shooter, rookie at this forum. Glad y'all are here, because I've got the exact same problems.
Finding posts on this forum indicating the new mags have a DIFFERENT PART NUMBER is a huge red flag that Remington goofed, figured it out and fixed it, but stealthily took a "buyer beware" approach to buyers who took them at their word that the Gen 1 problems were fixed.
Why not send out replacement mags to owners and handle this the right way? Embarrassing, surely, but better to admit it openly and fix it gracefully.
I wrote Rem CS asking for 3 replacement mags (I'd bought a third one), and hope to get the "good stuff" this time.
In the meantime, I should remove about 3/16" from the bottoms of my mag followers to get proper use out of them?
Because there's no master list of who has or doesn't have a R51. Frankly failure to feed isn't a safety concern in the eyes of the establishment the same way firing when undesired to do so so there's no recall. Further, as evidenced by this forum, many users have already modified the original mags to function satisfactorily. In your later message you state that they were agreeable to sending replacements which I think is satisfactory, especially if they aren't demanding return of the old ones.
That being said, I better go take a look at mine since I bought 4 more from midway a few weeks ago.
Quote from: russc2542 on October 04, 2017, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: LouisianaMan on September 23, 2017, 12:46:05 AM
Old shooter, rookie at this forum. Glad y'all are here, because I've got the exact same problems.
Finding posts on this forum indicating the new mags have a DIFFERENT PART NUMBER is a huge red flag that Remington goofed, figured it out and fixed it, but stealthily took a "buyer beware" approach to buyers who took them at their word that the Gen 1 problems were fixed.
Why not send out replacement mags to owners and handle this the right way? Embarrassing, surely, but better to admit it openly and fix it gracefully.
I wrote Rem CS asking for 3 replacement mags (I'd bought a third one), and hope to get the "good stuff" this time.
In the meantime, I should remove about 3/16" from the bottoms of my mag followers to get proper use out of them?
Because there's no master list of who has or doesn't have a R51. Frankly failure to feed isn't a safety concern in the eyes of the establishment the same way firing when undesired to do so so there's no recall. Further, as evidenced by this forum, many users have already modified the original mags to function satisfactorily. In your later message you state that they were agreeable to sending replacements which I think is satisfactory, especially if they aren't demanding return of the old ones.
That being said, I better go take a look at mine since I bought 4 more from midway a few weeks ago.
Russc,
I checked the part numbers on the Mags that came with my R51 and it is #17696. The part number on the two mags that Rem is shipping (?)
to me is #F304502. Could be thay upgraded and aren't publicizing it?
Blackie
Quote from: 1911SHOOTER on October 04, 2017, 04:58:53 PM
Quote from: russc2542 on October 04, 2017, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: LouisianaMan on September 23, 2017, 12:46:05 AM
Old shooter, rookie at this forum. Glad y'all are here, because I've got the exact same problems.
Finding posts on this forum indicating the new mags have a DIFFERENT PART NUMBER is a huge red flag that Remington goofed, figured it out and fixed it, but stealthily took a "buyer beware" approach to buyers who took them at their word that the Gen 1 problems were fixed.
Why not send out replacement mags to owners and handle this the right way? Embarrassing, surely, but better to admit it openly and fix it gracefully.
I wrote Rem CS asking for 3 replacement mags (I'd bought a third one), and hope to get the "good stuff" this time.
In the meantime, I should remove about 3/16" from the bottoms of my mag followers to get proper use out of them?
Because there's no master list of who has or doesn't have a R51. Frankly failure to feed isn't a safety concern in the eyes of the establishment the same way firing when undesired to do so so there's no recall. Further, as evidenced by this forum, many users have already modified the original mags to function satisfactorily. In your later message you state that they were agreeable to sending replacements which I think is satisfactory, especially if they aren't demanding return of the old ones.
That being said, I better go take a look at mine since I bought 4 more from midway a few weeks ago.
Russc,
I checked the part numbers on the Mags that came with my R51 and it is #17696. The part number on the two mags that Rem is shipping (?)
to me is #F304502. Could be thay upgraded and aren't publicizing it?
Blackie
Absolutely, companies in all fields supersede part numbers all the time without publishing it. If you complain they can look it up and if it's in for other work they can swap them out without having to push it out in a recall. When I worked in shops and dealerships still, it wasn't uncommon to have a part superseded a few times. Then there's the computer modules... seems there's a revised software flash available about every other week. Not necessarily a problem, just someone complained once and they fixed it and they push the fix out to others as they bring it up. That's why it's important to talk to the manufacturer when you have problems rather than just b**** about it online or to friends.
Cars are also different where they can look up owners from registrations. Firearms recalls are harder because they aren't registered (thank god) so it has to be done loudly so everyone can hear and everyone does hear...and remember. Auto recalls you hear about 1 in the news every few years but there are actually hundreds every year across the various mfrs and thousands of non-recall campaigns and TSBs that range from "if you see the old part number, replace it" to "if the customer complains, replace it" to revisions of the service information.
Russc2542, said,
"That's why it's important to talk to the manufacturer when you have problems rather than just b**** about it online or to friends".. ==============
If we hadn't talked about it on line and to our friends on this blog, we would not have the
fixes we got! We now have functioning R51s. Remington has not been forthcoming at all with us.
Blackie
Quote from: 1911SHOOTER on October 09, 2017, 09:23:28 AM
Russc2542, said,
"That's why it's important to talk to the manufacturer when you have problems rather than just b**** about it online or to friends".. ==============
If we hadn't talked about it on line and to our friends on this blog, we would not have the
fixes we got! We now have functioning R51s. Remington has not been forthcoming at all with us.
Blackie
ha, I said not JUST talk about it online. I never said don't talk about it online. If anyone tries to tell me I can't open the hood, take it apart, or find ways to improve I say "Challenge accepted!". "No user serviceable parts" only pertains to the warranty period.
BUT I also know from common sense and experience building a workorder system from scratch at work and being the complaints funnel, I've lost track of the number of times I'm trying to find out why something is wrong, go and ask users and hear "oh that's never worked. It didn't work when they gave it to us so I never used it". Meanwhile, when I DO get feedback on the system I help support, the vendor we work with usually has stuff fixed in a few days.
Quote from: russc2542 on October 13, 2017, 12:48:23 PM
Quote from: 1911SHOOTER on October 09, 2017, 09:23:28 AM
Russc2542, said,
"That's why it's important to talk to the manufacturer when you have problems rather than just b**** about it online or to friends".. ==============
If we hadn't talked about it on line and to our friends on this blog, we would not have the
fixes we got! We now have functioning R51s. Remington has not been forthcoming at all with us.
Blackie
ha, I said not JUST talk about it online. I never said don't talk about it online. If anyone tries to tell me I can't open the hood, take it apart, or find ways to improve I say "Challenge accepted!". "No user serviceable parts" only pertains to the warranty period.
BUT I also know from common sense and experience building a workorder system from scratch at work and being the complaints funnel, I've lost track of the number of times I'm trying to find out why something is wrong, go and ask users and hear "oh that's never worked. It didn't work when they gave it to us so I never used it". Meanwhile, when I DO get feedback on the system I help support, the vendor we work with usually has stuff fixed in a few days.
Russc2542,
99% of the time you will be right, But if you have really read the comments on here, you will se that nobody is getting help from the vendor
Three or four of us have been promised the upgraded magazines,, yet the only person to get any was Wiley Clapp. Who got two of them plus
ammo after Remington said they were not shipping them yet. . That is not cooperation, that is sucking up to the gun magazines and writers.
I did not accuse you of saying don't talk about it.
Blackie
As stated on another post, I received an email from UPS to expect a delivery on
Monday from Remington. Could it be the long awaited magazines?
Will let all know Monday evening after "Big Brown" drops by.
First thing I will do is compare the new mags to the ones I now have.
Part numbers., Followers, springs, base plates etc.
Blackie