Doing some R&D on a threaded barrel concept, and had a quick question about the preferred pitch.
I'm most familiar with 1/2-28 for muzzle devices, but see a number of 9mm pistol barrels in 13.5mmx1LH as well.
If a R51 threaded barrel were to hit the market, would y'all be interested in the metric thread, or would the 1/2 thread be preferred?
For suppressors, all mine have been Form-1'ed and I haven't paid much attention to other commercial pattern as they don't constrain my design.
Engineer,
Have you noticed that there is no room on the end of the barrel for a suppressor?
The end of the barrel is flush with the front of the slide. Or do you intend to fabricate
a totally new longer barrel?
Blackie
Never doubt a man with a machine shop and a little time on his hands...
Yes, I've done the CAD for a barrel extension to thread onto the end of the stock barrel and allow the threads to start 0.125" from the end of the slide and allow suppressor and other devices.
I'll have the prototype machined up next week for T&E, and will report back with some teaser pics. ;)
Engineer,
If you come up with a standard threaded barrel, I will be interested.
No Metric stuff.
Blackie
It being late, I'm just gonna leave this here...
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2dvv9kl.png)
More info tomorrow...
Finally had all the parts and tooling come in, and we fab'ed up the prototype extended and threaded R51 barrel. Using the factory Gen2 barrel, a 416 Stainless extension is semi-permanently attached with internal threads and high-temp threadlocker, and the new muzzle is threaded the standard 1/2-28. OAL extends 0.85" from the front of the slide.
The thread protector is SS as well, and actually helps pull the barrel forward quite nicely for disassembly. With a suppressor attached, The balance shifts forward a bit, which feels quite nice to me. The factory rifling and muzzle aren't touched at all during the process.
Looks like we're going to do a first run of 25 pieces, anyone interested? Working through pricing and marketing right now.
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_52_04.jpeg) (http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_52_16.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_52_38.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_52_52.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_53_03.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_53_41.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_53_17.jpeg)
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_9_53_54.jpeg)
WOW, that is cool. I don't understand everything you said, but I like it. Where did you get a barrel; that didn't have the grip ridges?
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on January 25, 2018, 10:36:58 AM
WOW, that is cool. I don't understand everything you said, but I like it. Where did you get a barrel; that didn't have the grip ridges?
He used a factory barrel and machined just the outer diameter at the front to remove the grip serrations and thread it for the extension, a very good idea. The only question I have is, are these barrels the latest run from Remington or the ones floating around for sale on Ebay and other places.
Thanks. I can barely see where the barrel extension fits over the top of the original barrel. That is a good idea!
I'll let EP confirm, but it looks like he used a standard Gen 2 barrel. The link below elsewhere in our forum has pics of the differences between the Remington stock barrels and those offered on ebay.
http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/ (http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/)
Quote from: Engineerpower on January 25, 2018, 09:59:19 AM
Looks like we're going to do a first run of 25 pieces, anyone interested? Working through pricing and marketing right now.
Yes, I'm certainly curious.
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on January 25, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
Thanks. I can barely see where the barrel extension fits over the top of the original barrel. That is a good idea!
I'll let EP confirm, but it looks like he used a standard Gen 2 barrel. The link below elsewhere in our forum has pics of the differences between the Remington stock barrels and those offered on ebay.
http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/ (http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/)
SCurmudgeon,
Check with Iklawson, He and I bought an ebay barrel, there are no differences in them! Trust me, If Kirk says they are the same,
they are the same! Take it to the bank!
Blackie
QuoteThe only question I have is, are these barrels the latest run from Remington or the ones floating around for sale on Ebay and other places.
I'll be totally upfront: my prototype is a Gen2 barrel I bought off eBay for T&E (here's the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gen2-REMINGTON-R-51-FACTORY-BARREL-9mm-LUGER-P-R51-GENUINE-remington-gen2-gen-2/201858320078 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gen2-REMINGTON-R-51-FACTORY-BARREL-9mm-LUGER-P-R51-GENUINE-remington-gen2-gen-2/201858320078)).
I compared this to the stock barrel that came with my Gen2 R51, and the only difference I can identify is the machining technique on the sides at the barrel pin hole. On my old one, it was machined as a pocket and on the eBay one, it was machined as two slots; functionally and by all other appearances they're exactly the same and it ate 2 mags without a hitch this afternoon. It arrived to me totally clean, in 'new, unfired' condition, and fit perfectly into my slide.
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_25_01_18_7_53_41.jpeg)
QuoteI'll let EP confirm, but it looks like he used a standard Gen 2 barrel.
Correct.
QuoteI can barely see where the barrel extension fits over the top of the original barrel. That is a good idea!
Thanks! MUCH easier and cheaper than machining a whole new barrel from a rifled blank. There's another shop that does this technique, but they charge $160 to do it to YOUR barrel, rather than provide you with a second one. We'll be shipping you a new barrel, and beat this price by quite a bit.
Quote from: Engineerpower on January 25, 2018, 08:02:36 PMI compared this to the stock barrel that came with my Gen2 R51, and the only difference I can identify is the machining technique on the sides at the barrel pin hole. On my old one, it was machined as a pocket and on the eBay one, it was machined as two slots; functionally and by all other appearances they're exactly the same and it ate 2 mags without a hitch this afternoon. It arrived to me totally clean, in 'new, unfired' condition, and fit perfectly into my slide.
That one seems to be the genuine article then, great. Looks very promising. Are you also going to do some accuracy testing to compare with the original?
Quote from: 1911SHOOTER on January 25, 2018, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: SCurmudgeon on January 25, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
Thanks. I can barely see where the barrel extension fits over the top of the original barrel. That is a good idea!
I'll let EP confirm, but it looks like he used a standard Gen 2 barrel. The link below elsewhere in our forum has pics of the differences between the Remington stock barrels and those offered on ebay.
http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/ (http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-barrels-on-ebay-cheap/)
SCurmudgeon,
Check with Iklawson, He and I bought an ebay barrel, there are no differences in them! Trust me, If Kirk says they are the same,
they are the same! Take it to the bank!
Blackie
FWIW, I agree with Blackie. I've not found any difference between the bbl which came with the gun and the fleabay, right down to the fact that both of them seem have SAAMI minimum spec leade/freebore. I should probably buy chamber gauge or something but I'm pretty cheap. ;)
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Quote from: funflyer on January 25, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: Engineerpower on January 25, 2018, 08:02:36 PM. Are you also going to do some accuracy testing to compare with the original?
I will probably do this when I build my 9mm suppressor. I've been sitting on an NFA stamp for a while, just have had to many 'must-do' and need-do' projects before I get around to 'wanna-do'...
Quote from: lklawson on January 26, 2018, 11:16:43 AM...SAAMI minimum spec leade/freebore. I should probably buy chamber gauge or something but I'm pretty cheap. ;)
I was thinking about that last night; have you considered using a throat reamer to open up the free bore a little bit? I have the measurement equipment other than the reamer, if several people need their barrels reamed, we could offer this as a service. Maybe an option on the threaded barrels!
Quote from: Engineerpower on January 26, 2018, 11:24:07 AMI was thinking about that last night; have you considered using a throat reamer to open up the free bore a little bit? I have the measurement equipment other than the reamer, if several people need their barrels reamed, we could offer this as a service. Maybe an option on the threaded barrels!
I have, but I think that's a bit beyond my abilities. :)
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Don't get me wrong, I have no love for either thread pitch but I have noticed the gun I have with RH threads will unscrew the thread protector during firing where-as the HK with LH threads does not.
I can't imagine the tiny amount of bullet rotation having a larger influence on the protector that the threadforms or how tightened it was.
I mean, anything is possible, but yeah.
Engineer,
Any information on the price of these barrels?
Blackie
Production on the first run began today! Looking like we'll have completed parts ready for QC late next week and ready to ship.
Pricing is looking like it will be $125, and I'm working on getting first dibs for this forum and special pricing for members.
Quote from: Engineerpower on February 02, 2018, 03:02:19 PM
I can't imagine the tiny amount of bullet rotation having a larger influence on the protector that the threadforms or how tightened it was.
I mean, anything is possible, but yeah.
Somehow, I can.
A bullet doing 15 to 20K RPM hitting threads has to be inducing some torque, either tighter, up to a point, or looser, and magazine after another magazine full, its really going the have to be snug to keep the latter tight.
A shotgun charge, down the bore, time after time will loosen screw in chokes, even with no bullet spin.
Shouldn't be any contact between the bullet and a thread protector, though, right? Just the general vibration of a tiny train rolling by at Mach 1, and the slide doing its thing.
Cameron,
I am very impressed with this. It looks like a factory job to boot! Are you going to consider finishing it in black? Or leave it shiny?
Thanks! We're getting them pretty seamless. We mount the extension the barrel with an OD of 5/8", then turn down and hand fit with fine sandpaper to the factory 0.532" OD. There's a microscopic seam, but it's the same grade of stainless and hand fit extremely close, so hard to find it unless you know where to look.
What finish would you like to see? Being stainless, it won't take a bluing or park finish, so that would just leave a bake-on epoxy. I'll have to see how cerakote and gunkote do on barrels.
Actually, Caswell has a SS blackening solution. May have to take a look at that, does anyone have any experience with it?
Quote from: Engineerpower on February 04, 2018, 11:52:29 AM
Actually, Caswell has a SS blackening solution. May have to take a look at that, does anyone have any experience with it?
Cameron,
Actually I wasn't suggesting to finish the barrel just the adapter. I was thinking black cerakote to match the gun's finish.
Sean
Quote from: Engineerpower on February 02, 2018, 03:02:19 PM
I can't imagine the tiny amount of bullet rotation having a larger influence on the protector that the threadforms or how tightened it was.
I mean, anything is possible, but yeah.
One, no. after a box yes. the bullet accelerates in one rotational direction, the gun is torqued in the other. the reaction to the bullet is very sudden, the reaction from your hand much slower. Happens on both my .22 (S&W 2206) and .45 (FNX45T). HKs with RH threads have an oring I think. Locktite also works if you run that way.
for $125, sign me up.
The lathe assigned to run the barrel production run had a bearing fail in the powertrain, and we'll be running a few days behind our target release day, unfortunately as I had to design and source a custom bearing stack. Turns out some designer 30 years ago decided to use a radial bearing in an axial bearing's role. I guess it speaks pretty well to Japanese bearings that it lasted that long before disintegrating!
Quote from: russc2542 on February 12, 2018, 07:16:43 AM
for $125, sign me up.
I'm working on getting an even better price for this forum... ;)
Quote from: russc2542 on February 12, 2018, 07:16:43 AM
Quote from: Engineerpower on February 02, 2018, 03:02:19 PM
I can't imagine the tiny amount of bullet rotation having a larger influence on the protector that the threadforms or how tightened it was.
I mean, anything is possible, but yeah.
One, no. after a box yes. the bullet accelerates in one rotational direction, the gun is torqued in the other. the reaction to the bullet is very sudden, the reaction from your hand much slower. Happens on both my .22 (S&W 2206) and .45 (FNX45T). HKs with RH threads have an oring I think. Locktite also works if you run that way.
for $125, sign me up.
Yep, my point as well, I just didn't write it up as well.
Basically, vibration alone, (and bbls do vibrate!), let alone torque, will loosen threads.
Now, the common thing to stop such, a lock washer wouldn't look so good! ;D
But a little low/medium strength lock tight should do the trick if it tends to happen..
That said, my brother once bought an old Springfield .3006 that had been re-barreled, sporterised, with what appeared to be a washer installed between the bbl and the receiver, all machined down, and one could see that the metals did not match at all! He didn't like what I had to say about his complete lack of noticing, or caring! I wouldn't have shot it on a bet!,,(Good thing that he doesn't read this forum!)
Just wanted to give an update to everyone!
Repairs to the production lathe are complete, but I have to step away for 2 weeks for Military Duty (I'm a Commander in the National Guard). Company policy is no new product releases while the engineering director is OOO, sorry :(
We're looking at 19 March release date, beginning with a sale exclusive to R51Pistol forum members. Y'all will have first dibs on the only production threaded R51 barrels in the world!
Next up in the chute as well, anti-wobble CNC METAL TRIGGERS!
Whowuddathunkit?
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_20_02_18_8_33_25.png)
Groovy. :)
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
no wobble and less overtravel would be a godsend!
BTW, I just noticed you're a fellow Hoosier only 1.5hr away. Yay Indiana!
in reply to the 2 different barrels,,,
1., the one on the top has a different machining as on the top the CNC did not square it off
2., the one on the bottom is CNC machined straight across
is the one on the top from your R51 and the one on the bottom from Ebay ,
my barrel has the machining , looks just like the top barrel just checking if I read this the wrong way
Johnny'sR51
Quote from: johnnysR51 on March 05, 2018, 10:02:30 AM
in reply to the 2 different barrels,,,
1., the one on the top has a different machining as on the top the CNC did not square it off
2., the one on the bottom is CNC machined straight across
is the one on the top from your R51 and the one on the bottom from Ebay ,
my barrel has the machining , looks just like the top barrel just checking if I read this the wrong way
Johnny'sR51
The one on top is the one that was modified for the adapter. I think Cameron simply machined off the grooves on the front of the barrel to give it a smooth look. Then he cut the threads on the inside of the barrel for the adapter. The one on the bottom is a stock barrel.
Stay safe
First 3 rolled off the production line right at closing time yesterday afternoon!
(http://r51pistol.com/gallery/955_16_03_18_10_28_03.jpeg)
Cool. :)
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Yes, that is SOOO cool.
Super ,you the Man ,,,, count me in please
Johnnysr51
So how do we order one?
How much?
^^^ Yes, that
We'll be accepting orders this week, on this forum first. Forum members will have first dibs on the run of 25, with forum pricing at $100 shipped. Anything left after a couple weeks will be available for everyone else at $125 shipped.
Consider me in for ONE. How do you want to arrange payment?
David
Count me in , iam on board , how do I make payment
johnnysr51
Just finished machining and finishing, doing final cleaning and QC now.
Our prior work has been primarily contract based, and this will be the first direct-to-consumer offering for us. We're getting a storefront setup and online this week to begin order-taking.
SALE GOING LIVE TOMORROW! ;D
AWESOME!
How are the triggers coming along? :D
CAD on the trigger is done, moving on to manufacturability next week, it'll be late April or May for that launch most likely.
What is the coupon code?
R51FORUM for $25 off!
Just started a new thread to keep the sales and discussion seperate, located at: http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-threaded-barrels-available!/ (http://r51pistol.com/r51-general-discussion/r51-threaded-barrels-available!/)
For our online store, visit DANGERCO.US (http://dangerco.us)