Quote from: RED HORSE on April 16, 2016, 10:57:10 AMI still think he is a shill for Remington.

That's because you're getting all emotional and pissy about it.  You're demanding something you have no legal right to demand and stamping your feet when you don't get your way.  You WANT to believe that I'm a "shill" because I'm telling you something you don't want to hear; that you can't always get your way.  Sorry, but that's not real life.

I know you want "straight answers" but you're not entitled to them.  And whining and crying that you're not getting them won't change that, nor will throwing tantrums and tossing accusations "shill" or "troll" of someone points out that uncomfortable and unsatisfying truth to you.

One and a half years ago, I told Remington straight out that they were being stupid by playing it close to the vest and not being totally transparent to their customers.  I wrote a letter, I told their techs, and I told Certified Remington Armorers this.  I told them that they were developing a public relations FAIL by doing so.  But I have no delusions that Remington is somehow legally required to do so.

Do I want "straight answers" and total transparency?  Yes.  Do I get everything I want?  No.

Neither do you.

Quote from: ComingCurse on April 16, 2016, 12:20:59 AMYou said you received your r1 as compensation already - over a year ago, so I'm curious why you're new on these boards.

Because I intend to buy the Gen 2 when it comes out.  I liked the way the Gen 1 felt and shot.

QuoteIt seems like you're trolling.

Then you don't know what the term means.

QuoteObviously you're as welcome as a anyone here, but you just seem to be shitting on people and telling them how  wrong they are.

Only when they're actually wrong.  And anyone claiming they have a right to their demands about for information on this subject from Remington is, honestly, just wrong.

QuoteThese people just want straight answers and their promised replacement firearm.

I know what they want.  I want that to.  But that doesn't mean that anyone is ENTITLED to it as you seem to be arguing.  They're not.

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 12, 2016, 11:40:30 AM

Quote from: lklawson on April 12, 2016, 09:02:58 AM

Quote from: ComingCurse on April 11, 2016, 03:44:35 PM
  Yes, Iklawson,  I agree they have offered compensation, though you'd be hard pressed to find that information - or ANY information for that matter - on the website about the r51.

I found out when I called.  Quick and easy.  I was on hold for a few minutes.

QuoteI believe what my fellow posters mean is that we JUST WANT AN ANSWER. Not inside info, just a "yes, we are producing it and it will be out xxx", or "no, we've stopped production. Pick your compensation."

No one is entitled to answers which include Corporate Secrets such as Product Development Timetables.

I understand wanting the information.  I want that information too.  But no one here is entitled to that information.

QuoteThat said, it is with a heavy heart that I inform you all that I finally gave up and took the r1 deal. When it arrives at my ffl, I will sell it to him and buy another easily concealable firearm - probably the ruger lc9s pro.

Which is probably the best course for you.

Further evidence that you don't know what you are talking about.  The Remington 10K dated 31 Dec 015 makes no mention of the R51.  That in itself is highly questionable as publicly traded companies, regulated by the SEC are required by law to disclose potential liability issues.  Since the 10K makes no mention of the R51 problem Remington is already on thin ice.

Actually, it means pretty much nothing and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that you are entitled to corporate secrets about product development.

Again, you threatened elsewhere to sue Remington.  Please sue.  I would find it amusing.

Quote from: ComingCurse on April 11, 2016, 03:44:35 PM
  Yes, Iklawson,  I agree they have offered compensation, though you'd be hard pressed to find that information - or ANY information for that matter - on the website about the r51.

I found out when I called.  Quick and easy.  I was on hold for a few minutes.

QuoteI believe what my fellow posters mean is that we JUST WANT AN ANSWER. Not inside info, just a "yes, we are producing it and it will be out xxx", or "no, we've stopped production. Pick your compensation."

No one is entitled to answers which include Corporate Secrets such as Product Development Timetables.

I understand wanting the information.  I want that information too.  But no one here is entitled to that information.

QuoteThat said, it is with a heavy heart that I inform you all that I finally gave up and took the r1 deal. When it arrives at my ffl, I will sell it to him and buy another easily concealable firearm - probably the ruger lc9s pro.

Which is probably the best course for you.

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 11, 2016, 08:36:59 PM
At least you got someone who would talk to you.  They hung up on me last Friday afternoon.

I'm beginning to look into taking Remington to small claims court.

Please do this.  Post up all the proceedings and then how much you have to pay in court fines.

QuoteIt turns out they are owned by a holding company located in England, The Freedom Group http://www.freedom-group.com/.  This may be the problem, this is an investment group and only cares about making money, and doesn't care one iota about customer service.

Everyone has known for ages that Freedom Group "holds" Remington.  It was big news years ago when it happened.  And, restrain your shock, but companies are in business to make money.  Only the Government is OK with just giving away money and running at a continual deficit.

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 11, 2016, 08:41:23 PM

Quote from: lklawson on April 11, 2016, 01:42:47 PM

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 05, 2016, 08:03:09 PM
I contacted Remington customer service around the first of the year and was told my return email the new R51's were scheduled for release during the 2nd or 3rd quarter of this year.  Since we are now in the 2nd quarter I contacted them yesterday to get an update.  Alas, the news was not good.

Remington has now stopped promising "2nd or 3rd" quarter release and are now back to "We appreciate your patience as we continue our efforts to re-launch the R51.  Currently we don't have a timeframe for the reinduction but our Huntsville R&D Center is working to have this back on the market as soon as possible."

A step backwards.  I now seriously doubt I'll ever see a replacement R51 for the one I sent in.

Then ask them to send you a 100% Full Refund of YOUR purchase price or one of the 1911R1's which, though having a significantly higher MSRP, they've agreed to trade out to you, then shake the dust off of your feet and be done.

I've had a 1911 in hand now for over a year.  Its MSRP is a few hundred dollars more than the R51, a all-steel gun, classic and often considered a "must have," and is boringly reliable.

Getting the R1 out of Remington was exactly the same thing as them saying, "We're really sorry about your frustration.  Here's your full purchase price back and $200-$400 as an apology."   I don't know why some folks are so stubborn.  A $200-$400 apology goes a long way in my book.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

You miss the point.  I already have an R1 and I don't want another.  I want what I was promised and if they won't admit they can't provide that then I won't accept something to help them make their problem go away.  If they would send me a check for an amount necessary to purchase a Sig 938 I would take that.  Other than than, I want my R51.  If they can't make an R51 then at least have the balls to tell the public they can't.

The get the 100% Full Refund.

Or get the R1, sell it NIB unfired, and make a profit at Remington's expense.

Quote from: ComingCurse on April 11, 2016, 04:07:08 PM
Kirk,I believe you're missing the point. People are upset about being CONTINUALLY lied to. Yes, the 1911 is a good deal - and I just took it - after BEING LIED TO for a year an a half,  and it still stings.

Honestly, I'd rather have gotten my original, perfectly working r51 back, though I know that isn't an option.

Offering a good deal - especially when you fucked up - IS good business, however letting to customers (that's what I'm calling it at this point) is bad business, and I doubt the sting of this will leave many that have waited happy in the end.

Being lied to?  You mean hearing rumors and gossip from random people who may or may not have been inside Remington?

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 08, 2016, 03:32:25 PM
Exactly how I feel. This is simply beyond belief.  Any company that treats us customers in such a manner will never, never, receive any business from me in the future.

Yeah, they're treating their customers so badly.  The R51 MSRP was $389.  The MSRP for the 1911R1 is $774.

That free $385 upgrade sure is mistreating us.   

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Quote from: RED HORSE on April 05, 2016, 08:03:09 PM
I contacted Remington customer service around the first of the year and was told my return email the new R51's were scheduled for release during the 2nd or 3rd quarter of this year.  Since we are now in the 2nd quarter I contacted them yesterday to get an update.  Alas, the news was not good.

Remington has now stopped promising "2nd or 3rd" quarter release and are now back to "We appreciate your patience as we continue our efforts to re-launch the R51.  Currently we don't have a timeframe for the reinduction but our Huntsville R&D Center is working to have this back on the market as soon as possible."

A step backwards.  I now seriously doubt I'll ever see a replacement R51 for the one I sent in.

Then ask them to send you a 100% Full Refund of YOUR purchase price or one of the 1911R1's which, though having a significantly higher MSRP, they've agreed to trade out to you, then shake the dust off of your feet and be done.

I've had a 1911 in hand now for over a year.  Its MSRP is a few hundred dollars more than the R51, a all-steel gun, classic and often considered a "must have," and is boringly reliable.

Getting the R1 out of Remington was exactly the same thing as them saying, "We're really sorry about your frustration.  Here's your full purchase price back and $200-$400 as an apology."   I don't know why some folks are so stubborn.  A $200-$400 apology goes a long way in my book.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Quote from: Terrier on April 08, 2016, 10:37:39 PMRemington would do well to just explain it, send refunds or worthy compensation and continue to develop the R51 or abandon it.

That is EXACTLY what they have done.

For, what?, a year or two now, Remington has been offering either a 100% full refund purchase price (not their price to the distributor, the price that the customer actually paid) or a 1-for-1 replacement swap for the (more expensive) 1911R1.  In the mean time, they have continued to work on the R51, while guaranteeing those who are stubborn enough to wait, those who eschew the full refund or value-added swap, a place first in line for the Gen 2 R51 whenever that may be released.

The only gnashing of teeth right now are by those who are frustrated that Remington doesn't seem to want to advertise to the world what could be argued are trade/industry secrets regarding the development of a gun.

I understand the frustration of not getting the bauble that we want, but look at it from the perspective of a business.

I really do not believe that, at this point, it is anyone's right to demand inside information on the release of a product.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Quote from: Robert on March 23, 2016, 02:33:31 AM
Welcome lklawson

Thanks for signing up. I have a policy about first gen guns, I generally stay away and wait for the gen 2 version though I do wish I would have gone ahead and bought a R51 as they are kind of valuable and people are reporting here that they could have doubled their money on an original R51.

When my R51 started having mag-drops on the first range trip, I sent it back to Rem.  I was going to wait it out because I didn't want a refund, and I'm not a 1911 fanboy.  I bought the gun I wanted.  But then I was made to realize that I was basically giving away $200-$300 in the upgrade for the 1911 (msrp) and if I hated it, well there are zillions of 1911 fans who'd buy it for the price of a Gen 2 R51 when it came out and maybe a bit of ammo.  I was being pig-headed. 

QuoteLike you, when the 2nd gen R51 goes on sale I am going to buy one. My wife has expressed and interest in taking up shooting with me at the range and I think the R51 will be a good gun for her to use as I have heard that due to it's design it is lighter on recoil.

Bob

Mine certainly was everything that Remington billed it as.  Comfortable.  Natural pointer.  Light slide racking force.  Gentle recoil.  Nice trigger.

But it started mag-dropping first range outing.  After I sent it in, I examined some of the brass I'd shot out of it and found the "pimple with a dimple" evidence of over-pressure on the primers.  Probably, like some other reported, insufficient Lead in the Chamber.  Not that I could feel any recoil difference.  It ate standard velocity and +P with equal pleasure and equal gentle recoil.

When the finally release Gen 2, it will be mine.   

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Kirk Lawson

Martial Arts and Firearms hobbyist and instructor.  Mod over on HiPointFirearmsForums.

I was first in line at my LGS for the Gen 1 R51.  Eventually took the trade for the R1.  Figured, what the heck, they're giving me a $200-300 upgrade value. 

Eagerly awaiting release of Gen 2.  I'll be first in line again. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk