picked up an R51 a couple of weeks ago. Huntsville S/N. read owners manual. disassembled. cleaned. lubed parts. reassembled. yes, reassembly was difficult the first time. i've done it 3x now and it's much easier.
took to range. loaded mag. chambered round. no bang. tried several times. no firing pin marks on primers at all on any of the rounds in the magazine. go home. field strip pistol. firing pin is really hard to move in breech block with fingers. take pliers in leatherman wave and grip tail of firing pin. push back and forth in breech block with a lot of effort. i am thinking some manufacturing debris maybe didn't get removed?? drive firing pin retaining cross pin out of breech block and use pliers to take firing pin out. examine firing pin. the cylindrical section of the firing pin has a slot milled in it for the cross pin to retain firing pin in breech block. at rear of the milled slot there was a raised hump of metal that stuck up. the top had the finish rubbed off of it. evidently this firing pin wasn't caught by any kind of QC. took out the file on the leatherman wave and filed the hump down to match the cylinder body. reinstalled the firing pin. reassembled the pistol. ran like a champ after that. no FTF, FTE, FTF, etc. tried over 300 rounds of 115gr. fmj RN and FP, 124gr. RN NATO, 124gr. RN standard, 124gr. HP - 2 kinds - both +P, 147gr. fp - 2 brands. 125 Hornady HAP reloads. everything worked. both magazines. 2 hand hold at 7 yards kept magazine full in a 2" circle. mine is "combat" sighted, not bullseye sighted. so i had to cover the target to keep rounds in the bullseye. not conducive to tight groups for me. tomorrow i'll try over sandbags if i get the chance. emailed Remington and asked for a new firing pin as this one had the protective finish removed where the hump got ground down (parkerizing??) and i wanted a good firing pin to put back in that didn't have any finish removed. just got it in the mail today and installed it. while i was doing that i examined the pistol for wear. saw very little. the ramps in the breech bolt body that the slide engages to lift the bolt out of lock showed some burnishing. to be expected in my mind. also the frame ledge where the bolt locks up at firing showed some anodizing wear, but no dimensional changes that i could tell. the first time i disassembled the R51 when i got it i noted that the barrel feed ramp came polished from the factory and that wasn't something i'd need to do on this one. all interior surfaces of the slide were nicely machined and finished. no burrs found. barrel interior finish was very good, in my opinion. no other issues. just the firing pin issue. fit and finish are very nice in my opinion. accuracy is good but the short sight radius makes it a bit tougher as compared to a pistol with a longer sight radius. trigger feel is acceptable in my opinion, not great, but better than some i've tried. reset isn't very noticeable to me unless i really concentrate on it. not an issue for my use however. not too keen about the plastic trigger, but, don't even notice it in use and so as long as it doesn't fail in any way, it's a don't care functionally. aesthetically i think it would be nicer, to me, being anodized aluminum with no side to side wobble, but who knows, that might wear faster than what is in there now. but it would look nicer in my opinion. recoil is easily tolerable, barrel flip seems minimal. feel in hand is good. weight is nice for carry. quite a bit lighter than any full size service auto. grip safety on my instance clicked on and off audibly as well as being very tactile. i like the fact that there are no other safeties other than the grip safety. grip angle is quite comfortable for me. i have larger hands so this fits me so much better than a SIG 938 i tried. the grip length on the R51 is good for my size of hand. trigger reach was no problem. magazine release is difficult without changing grip as the recessed magazine release buttons, at least on my instance, take a deliberate strong vertical actuation which i cannot accomplish with either a thumb or finger without changing grip entirely. maybe that will loosen up with use? both magazines drop free, though, when i finally am able to fully depress the magazine release button. i did have a nose dive in the magazine when i failed to get it fully seated into the magazine well and the magazine dropped slightly. that was operator error. both magazines by the way have the gen2 hump at the front of the follower. once i fully seated the magazine until it clicked the magazine latch, then there were no more nosedive issues. other than the firing pin issue, which Remington did a great job of sending a replacement part right away, i've had no issues with this copy of the R51 gen 2. a friend picked up 2 of them and has had no issue with either of them, other than difficulty in field stripping and reassembly. i like this one enough i might have to pick up another one. i am looking forward to shooting over a sandbag rest and see just what size groups it can deliver with me driving. myself particularly i don't care for the "combat" sight picture this R51 seems to be setup for. i prefer more of a bulleye setup where the bullet impact is at the top of or just over the front sight. personal preference i guess. i noted that the 115s grouped a bit higher than the 124s which grouped higher than the 147s for the same sight picture. in fact i had to really cover the target a lot to get the 147s to shoot to the center of the bullseye. standard 124s and +P 124s didn't seem to have much difference in recoil to me. both i could hold in the 2" target center at 7 yards offhand for a full magazine each. i am still getting use to the trigger and short sight radius. and i am not a great shot with a pistol anyway. but i am pleased with this one. i picked up a galco stinger holster for it and the R51 fits in that holster well and the whole rig carries comfortably. i rarely noticed it was along for the ride. i'll be taking it with when out hiking, hunting, camping, etc. i like target shooting anyway, but i am finding this R51 is a hoot to plink with. i am glad i got it. i have decided that due to the effort to field strip and reassemble, i will simply use a q-tip to swab out the carbon accumulation from the pistol with the slide open, and then run a boresnake through the barrel a couple of times and call it good for the most part. maybe field strip and clean once a year? i really like the low bore axis too. the low bore axis is really noticeable when compared to full size browning type tilt barrel actuating service pistols. and though looks are good or bad based upon individual preferences, i really like the looks of the R51 too. since i quickly decided this one is a keeper i ordered a few more magazines to go with it. my only change that i am going to make is to go to tritium night sight set. i just can't decide on which ones yet, though i'm leaning towards trijicon personally. i am looking at the manufactures sight heights to see if i can find a set with a bit more height difference between the front and back, so that it shoots more towards a bullseye sight picture rather than a combat sight picture, though that is simply a personal preference by me. compared to a full size service pistol, this one carries much more nicely. it'll be the one i have with when i'm not specifically headed to the range for some target shooting, though it will go with to that too. the full size service auto is fun to shoot, but they are big enough and heavy enough that i usually won't strap it on when out hiking, camping, hunting, etc. due to the extra weight primarily, and bulk too. this R51 will be going along now. as i mentioned i hope to get to the range tomorrow to test the groups over sandbags, and try to get some chronographing done as well. This is my 2 week report. Looking forward to putting many more rounds downrange with this R51.
regards,
tdbru
Welcome aboard Tdbru! Glad your R51 is running on all cylinders now! Every time I hear a story like this about Remington's QC it just makes me slap my forehead and wonder what is going on out there. That should never have left the factory like that. As far as the plastic trigger is concerned, Engineerpower on here is looking at making an all metal trigger for this pistol to replace it. I think it will also take out the slop as well. I like keeping a super clean gun, so I tend to curse and fume my way through the field strip after each range session. Obsessive? Probably. But that is just personal preference. In addition to running a q-tip through the barrel, it also might be good to wipe the bolt face off with a rag to keep gunk from going down the firing pin hole. Again, glad it is working well for you. If you want to take advantage of it, Funflyer posted a thread on round count totals to keep track of how many rounds get run through our pistols. You might find it useful. Welcome aboard!
Sean
Welcome tdbru. I had to pass up trying to read your OP, as my old eyes just couldn't sort it all out. Breaking a long post into paragraphs would make it so much easier to read.
Please. Thanks.
sorry about the long winded post.
tdbru
Quote from: tdbru on May 13, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
sorry about the long winded post.
tdbru
Long winded is not a problem at all. Please just break it up into coherent paragraphs for easier reading.
Yeah, my eyes kind of crossed on that one! :o Just some paragraph divisions would be good. Like Dutch said ^^^^. :)
Got to the range again. Ran 8 more mags of ammo through. with 3 new mags. 124gr. ball, quite a variety of SD HPs. some reloads.
this time over sandbags at 25 yards and a chronograph.
Win and Rem come closer to published +P velocity in 124gr. (1200 fps) by a long shot compared to Hornady and Nosler.
Win PDX1 124gr. +P was around 1130fps
Rem 124gr +P golden saber was around 1125fps.
Hornady 124gr +P american gunner with xtp was around 1080fps
Nosler 124gr. +P bonded HP around 1020fps.
hornady and nosler need to take lessons from Remington and Winchester on how to load to spec velocity. Win and Nosler claimed 1200 fps.
Hornady claimed 1175fps.
nothing on the box of Rem golden saber.
Win 124gr. NATO was also around 1130fps with a published mv of 1200.
my R51 didn't like the nosler defense 124gr +P bonded JHP. nosedived on the 2nd round after the 1st shot and jammed. they also shot quite a bit lower and were quite scattered. i wasn't impressed with the nosler defense ammo.
the rest grouped respectably and all around the same POI.
the black was 6 1/4 inch diameter. i was holding the top of the front blade even with the middle of the bull. so the bullets grouped below this. none the less, 80% were in the black with 20% below in the white. had i held "combat" sights the % in the black might have been higher. but i could be more precise with aiming with this hold. i was trying to get a feeling of how it grouped mostly.
i notice that it is not easy for me to shoot this well. probably short sight radius coupled with relatively heavy trigger pull. that just means i need to practice some more.
still happy with this R51. but it is not as easy for me to shoot tight groups with this as it is with a full size service auto. but that's to be expected i suppose.
tdbru
Quote from: tdbru on May 18, 2018, 01:58:57 AM
Got to the range again. Ran 8 more mags of ammo through. with 3 new mags. 124gr. ball, quite a variety of SD HPs. some reloads.
this time over sandbags at 25 yards and a chronograph.
Win and Rem come closer to published +P velocity in 124gr. (1200 fps) by a long shot compared to Hornady and Nosler.
hornady and nosler need to take lessons from Remington and Winchester on how to load to spec velocity. Win and Nosler claimed 1200 fps.
Hornady claimed 1175fps.
nothing on the box of Rem golden saber.
my R51 didn't like the nosler defense 124gr +P bonded JHP. nosedived on the 2nd round after the 1st shot and jammed. they also shot quite a bit lower and were quite scattered. i wasn't impressed with the nosler defense ammo.
the rest grouped respectably and all around the same POI.
i notice that it is not easy for me to shoot this well. probably short sight radius coupled with relatively heavy trigger pull. that just means i need to practice some more.
still happy with this R51. but it is not as easy for me to shoot tight groups with this as it is with a full size service auto. but that's to be expected i suppose.
tdbru
I am surprised that Hornady and Nosler were both off so badly. I would have figured them to be of higher quality than that. As far as shooting low goes, you aren't the only one. Except, I think the sights are at fault not me ;). Well, that may be stretching the truth just a little! Actually, mine shoots quite a bit lower than should be normal. I guess I need to file the front site down a little and see what happens. Glad you still like yours! :)
Thanks for the write up tdbru.
I have found that, for defense loads, Hornady American Gunner and the Remington Ultimate Defense feed rather well. The Hornady Critical Defense has given me a couple of hang ups where the bullet lip catches the mag lip in the front. Federal Hydro Shoks, Nosler Defense and there was oneother I can't remember but have in my notes truly sucked for reliablity but to be fair this was before I had 4 magazines that I truly trust now. Perhaps a retest is in order?
Pat Riot,
any time you can get to the range and shoot it's a good thing. so of course a retest is in order ;)
all my mags are the gen2 variety and i am not having issues with any of them, other than they don't like the bullet profile i guess for nosler defense. everything else i've put through it has been a non-issue. it just works.
tdbru
Quote from: Pat Riot on May 18, 2018, 01:02:17 PM
Thanks for the write up tdbru.
I have found that, for defense loads, Hornady American Gunner and the Remington Ultimate Defense feed rather well. The Hornady Critical Defense has given me a couple of hang ups where the bullet lip catches the mag lip in the front. Federal Hydro Shoks, Nosler Defense and there was oneother I can't remember but have in my notes truly sucked for reliablity but to be fair this was before I had 4 magazines that I truly trust now. Perhaps a retest is in order?
Pat,
Not disputing what you have already said, but Hydra-Shoks, and Hornady Critical Defense have fed flawlessly in my pistol. The only thing I have had any snag ups on are steel case ammo. 2 rounds in about 30 nosedived. Mine eats everything I feed her. I guess reliability is on a case by case basis with these pistols.
put another box of winchester 124gr NATO though it today. no hiccups. with (very) slow aimed fire kept 95% of the box in a 2" circle at 7 yards. still learning to shoot it. weighed it with 8 in it and scaled at 26 oz. still don't like the "combat" sight picture you have to hold, but i'm (slowly) learning.
so that puts it at >400 now. just getting it broken in :D
tdbru
Quote from: tdbru on May 19, 2018, 09:14:55 PM
put another box of winchester 124gr NATO though it today. no hiccups. with (very) slow aimed fire kept 95% of the box in a 2" circle at 7 yards. still learning to shoot it. weighed it with 8 in it and scaled at 26 oz. still don't like the "combat" sight picture you have to hold, but i'm (slowly) learning.
so that puts it at >400 now. just getting it broken in :D
tdbru
Funflyer started a thread on here for forum users to keep track of their round counts for their pistols. I think it is entitled Round Count Totals, or something like that. Try to find it on here, as I think it will help you keep track better. Just a tip! ;)
Main obstacle to r51 accuracy is the trigger. Dry fire it and notice how much the site picture moves around. Practice reducing the movement.
Quote from: mr220v on June 01, 2018, 07:24:09 PM
Main obstacle to r51 accuracy is the trigger. Dry fire it and notice how much the site picture moves around. Practice reducing the movement.
Yeah...not a fan of the plastic trigger....I swear I feel a flex in it when slow firing.. Anyone heard anything about a aluminum aftermarket trigger for this pistol.
John
MR220V is right. with the R51's light weight and short sight radius, and the relatively heavy trigger pull, one really has to focus on the front sight as you shoot.
i tried shooting at 25 yards but to get the impact anywhere close to center of the target, i had to cover so much of the target that it disappeared and i lost all sighting reference. i didn't shoot very well.
i don't like these "combat" sights at all. i'm going to look for a shorter front sight.
as Col. Whelen said, " only accurate rifles are interesting". well that applies to pistols too. and these sights make accurate aiming, for me, impossible. when you can't see your target in relation to the sights, you have nothing to aim at.
otherwise, another box of ammo today at 25 yards. mix of 115 and 124. no issues with functionality.
tdbru
I wonder if there is much of a variance in the trigger pull between pistols? I thought mine (Generation 2-Huntsville) was pretty light and crisp right out of the box, and a couple gun-savvy folks whom have also shot my pistol commented that they thought the trigger was pretty decent for a production gun. I don't know anyone else who owns one locally so I have nothing to compare to.
Has anyone done any trigger work successfully?
Quote from: sawatis on June 01, 2018, 07:56:41 PM
Yeah...not a fan of the plastic trigger....I swear I feel a flex in it when slow firing.. Anyone heard anything about a aluminum aftermarket trigger for this pistol.
John
Engineerpower on here is planning on making one. If I remember right, he is in the CAD stage right now. This fall it will move to the CAM stage and production. I don't know exactly what time this fall, but it should be this fall though. I can't wait myself!
Excellent!! Will be watching for it...was thinking of fabricating a prototype myself, but will hold off...I saw his threaded barrels on here...looks interesting.
Thanks
John
Hi Guys,
A while back I posted that I was ordering my second R-51...a grey one! Got it from Grab-a-gun. Finally got out to the range last Saturday. Took the two mags from my 1st 51 and of course the two from the new one. On the eighth round I had a fail to eject with the slide moving back into battery. Slide was jammed and would not open it initially. Continued to work it back and forth the quarter inch or less that it would move. Then finally it opened. I continued my session to the tune of 278 rounds without further issue. Only one of my original mags had the follower legs shortened. So bottom line I am very pleased with both of these guns after hearing many stories of failures. I have been very fortunate. Both are very accurate and a pleasure to shoot. The only thing I did after bringing it home was to clean/lube and mirror polish the feed ramp, and a ton of dry firing. Oh yes, the first 28 rounds were factory, the remaining 250 were my reloads. Also, I think it was Blackie who said it was designed to, I think he called it "military load".
Insert mag with slide already back. I operated this way again without issue. I do like this pistol for the reasons the writers in the previous posts have said. Can't believe I'm thinking of another one for one or more of my kids or son-in-laws!
I also can't wait for Engineers trigger and about ready to order one of his barrels.
The trigger on my Charlotte gun is a very nice single action pull. Trouble is after shooting my RM380 and my Glock I have to consciously pay attention to the trigger on the R51 or I get a "Surprise". :D
I haven't experienced any trigger flex issues or anything like that.