Ref:1911shooter:

I agree that the author of the reviews I referenced clearly had an axe to grind with questionable information on the internet and sounded as self knowledgeable as those he railed against.

That does not take away from the value of the specifics he presented of the R51's shooting performance or the details of the minimal wear of the breech block supported with pictures, which was often pointed to as an other Remington design mistake by other reviewers.

His explanation of the "short pin", which is the focus of this thread, is one of two sources I have found that explains what is going on. Other reviewers act as if they have discovered another design error without any indication that they had contacted Remington to confirm if this was the case.

His explanation of the Pederson cycle was less than I need to fully understand it, but that doesn't mean its wrong. I'm just not the guy to confirm it.

His revelation of the mistakes he made in assembly match the mistakes that I had made the first time or two I reassembled the R51. I agree with his assessment of the difference between between the effort to learn the disassembly & assembly of the R51 compared to a 1911. The 1911 is a little easier, though I have inadvertently launched my share of recoil spring plugs.

All in all I feel the author did a competent job in his review as opposed to the incredulous, unsupported statements so many others have made.

Real Guns wrote the most useful review of the R51 that I have ever read. It addressed why this pin is short (which has also been confirmed in a video by Remington presented on youtube) and clarified what was really going on. The review is in three parts. I recommend reading them in order from part #1 through part #3.

See:
Remington's Newly Released R51 9mm +P Part 1
©RGI Media, Inc - Published with permission | RealGuns.Com

The links to the second and third parts are at the end of each part of the review.

This review will help clear up a lot of the bogus information and falsely derived conclusions put out by people who are not as knowledgeable as they think they are about the R51. I feel every R51 owner should read it.

I particularly liked a point the author brought up about the skill level the shooter needs to be successful with this gun. He said this is not a gun for a novice shooter and delineates his reasons for this conclusion through out the review, which I found to be both accurate and insightful.

As a result of reading this article, I started to wear a thin shooting glove so I could maintain the high grip required without fear of getting sliced by the slide. This high grip is required for the gun to cycle without any problems.

My own experience with 1911's has demonstrated to me that using a high grip reduced FTF's AND FTE's. It appears the R51 is a little more sensitive to needing a high shooting grip, likely due to the combination of the force from the ammunition used used and the weight of the actions' mass.

Here is the information on Lee's Undersize Sizing Die 9mm: SKU: 90313.

They make this die for 6 or 7 different calibers. As you know all advise is 100 % correct until you try it and it doesn't work (Ha Ha). Let us know if this die solves your problem.

This is a re-post of a previous response I have made on this forum:

There is a problem that can occur with 9mm Luger reloads that I have experienced in several guns: a friends Kimber, my SA Range Officer and my R51. All these guns have fairly tight chambers.

If the reloaded round does not get fully chambered; and this is most common in a tightly chambered gun, the gun won't fire. This is often due to a bulge at the very back of the case that the sizing die doesn't get to. The gun may appear to be in battery, but a close examination of the back of the slide and the back of the rail will show the slide needs to move forward a little more. This mismatch may only be 1 mm and can easily go unobserved.

The reloaded 9mm case does not get sized down near the base because most sizing dies don't allow the base of the case deep enough entry into the die for sizing to occur in this location. Depending on the lack of tightness of the chamber in the gun that the round was originally fired from and the manufactured spec's of the brass, there can be a slight bulge at the case's base; just where the die doesn't get to. Many reloader's won't use range brass for this reason. It is too hard to identify which brass has bulged.

This type of problem is common enough that Lee just started making a special sizing die that sizes all the way down to the base of the case and actually undersizes the case itself a few mm's so it will always fit reliably in tightly chambered guns. You can see the details of this die in Lee's most recent literature. I just bought one and will use it to replace the standard sizing die in my 9mm tool head.

There is a problem that can occur with 9mm Luger reloads that I have experienced in several guns: a friends Kimber, my SA Range Officer and my R51. All these guns have fairly tight chambers.

If the reloaded round does not get fully chambered; and this is most common in a tightly chambered gun, the gun won't fire. This is often due to a bulge at the very back of the case that the sizing die doesn't get to. The gun may appear to be in battery, but a close examination of the back of the slide and the back of the rail will show the slide needs to move forward a little more. This mismatch may only be 1 mm and can easily go unobserved.

The reloaded 9mm case does not get sized down near the base because most sizing dies don't allow the base of the case deep enough entry into the die for sizing to occur in this location. Depending on the lack of tightness of the chamber in the gun that the round was originally fired from and the manufactured spec's of the brass, there can be a slight bulge at the case's base; just where the die doesn't get to. Many reloader's won't use range brass for this reason. It is too hard to identify which brass has bulged.

This type of problem is common enough that Lee just started making a special sizing die that sizes all the way down to the base of the case and actually undersizes the case itself a few mm's so it will always fit reliably in tightly chambered guns. You can see the details of this die in Lee's most recent literature. I just bought one and will use it to replace the standard sizing die in my 9mm tool head.

Last Saturday my 23 year old grandson, Mike, tried out the R51 against the S&W Shield and the Honor, all in 9mm Luger. I had him shoot on a sheet that had 5 bull's-eye targets. The 1st target was shot using the R51, the 2nd target was shot using the S&W Shield and the 3rd target was shot using the Honor. He repeated the full clip per target shooting sequence on the same targets to make sure his first efforts were not different due to unfamiliarity with the guns.

During his first attempt to shoot the R51, he kept locking up the trigger after firing a round. I found he was trying to shoot fast and pulled the trigger for the second shot before the R51's action had cycled. I explained what happened and told him to keep the trigger depressed until the gun finished recoiling and was coming back on target. He did that and had no further problems with the trigger.

These 3 Automatics are similar in size and we used Magtech 115 grain FMJ commercial ammo. Mike felt the R51 was the best looking, felt it had the most comfortable grip when firing, was the easiest to rack, and the lightest kicking of the three guns. He was also the most accurate when shooting the R51. He preferred the S&W Shield because the slide was farther from his hand than with the R51. He has fat hands that expand when he grips the gun and there was a grease line over his hand where the slide had made contact.

I had problems with my R51 at first due to the low grip I held to avoid contact with the slide. This caused some inconsistent feeding problems. I got a pair of thin shooting gloves the keep the skin of my shooting hand out of the way of the slide when I use the highest grip possible. I shoot much better with them because I don't need to worry about getting hit with the slide when firing. Wearing gloves for me is not a problem since I only plink and target shoot with my R51.

I was surprised Mike had his initial trigger problem. I forget that many people unfamiliar with handguns are unaware of the special requirements that different types of actions can have. With revolvers you must let the trigger fully release to reset. This requires a movement of much greater distance than with automatics. The salesman had mentioned it was a problem with the R51, but I had not heard of it until my grandson experienced it. I consider it a non-problem, but I can see how a novice shooter would be discouraged by it.

LEE is making a new 9mm die that is .002 to .003 inches tighter that addresses this problem. I will be getting one myself.

The problem with the 9mm Luger round is that the expansion that occurs, especially at the base where it is widest, does not get resized in most resizing dies. The new die also allows the complete resizing down past the base. I know from personal experience that my 9 mm reloads that shoot without problems in my Springfield Range Officer will not even chambered in my friends expensive and accurate automatic. He has a tighter chamber. It does fine with new factory ammo. When he shot one of mine it would not feed all the way and had to be knocked back out of the barrel with a squib rod and a hammer.

Keep in mind that barrels with tight chambers that are in spec., shoot more accurately than looser barrels that are also within specifications.

Snagging of the sights is not an issue for me because I use a holster. The Dawson front sight is a fiber optic and only about 1/2 as wide. I tried it and the original Remington sight using a micro fabric cloth. The Remington sight did not snag at all while the Dawson sight snags the microfibers and the soft cloth itself.

My R51 shot 4" to 6" low with all the different weight ammo I put through it. I remember reading a post from another member in this Forum who had the same problem and corrected it by using a shorter front sight from Dawson Precision. I have used their fiber optic sights on other guns and liked them a lot, so I went ahead and got one and had it installed on my Remington. I need to tell you that Dawson's website has a calculator that determines the change in front sight height required to change the point of impact. I used their calculator and ended up with the same sight height the other member used. It ends up being a Novak cut, .130" tall,  .125" wide, ramped fiber optic front sight.  I had difficulty removing the original front sight, even using a tool provided by Dawson as part of their front sight kit, so I had my gunsmith install it. Now it hits where I aim it.

As I said I would do in my previous post, I cleaned and re-lubed my R51 using Rem Oil. I used  Cherry Balmz "Black Rifle" grease on the rails and rubbing flat surfaces on the slide, receiver and breech block. It worked well. The effort to rack the slide is somewhat lower and certainly smoother.  My only feed problems were with some of my old 147 grain LRN reloads. There were 3 failures to eject (stove piping) out of 75 rounds fired, while there were no failures of any kind using 50 commercial 115 grain FMJ ammo from two different manufacturers. Both my magazines worked with 7 rounds and one in the chamber. I did clean and lubricate my magazines before I used them and recommend to everyone that they clean and lubricate their magazines. I found out the hard way what happens when you don't on my .22 LR Ruger automatic. Lots of feeding problems when they were not cleaned and lubricated regularly.

The reason for the three failures appears to be related to the reloading process I used, judging from the inconsistent case ejections I observed with the reloads. The following explanation is somewhat technical but is applicable to any reloads that fill almost all the available case space with powder.

I used some old reloads that were made using a fixed volume powder dispenser. This feeds powder consistently, but I need to change the OAL by changing the bullet seating in order to fine tune the pressure curve. I find I get some variation of the bullet seating over time if I am not carful during the reloading process. Also, I had not sorted my pistol brass in the past. The loads I use for the 9 mm Luger fills the case to over 90% capacity. Any variation in the actual available case space can cause a significant change in the amount of pressure generated when fired. The pressure variation at this level of loading is not linear, but is geometric. A 1% change in volume will create a greater than 1% increase in pressure. The result can be seen in differences in the case ejection patterns. 

I have now installed a continuously adjustable volume powder dispenser. I can fine tune the pressure curve by adjusting the powder feeder. I have tested this feeder and it is more consistent than my current digital scale is. I need to add a more sensitive scale that is accurate to 0.02 grains. This will allow me to select a load to an accuracy of 0.5 grains and use a fixed OAL that optimizes reliable feeding in my R51. This will take some time, but I will post my results with the expectation that my 147 grain reloads will operate as reliably as the commercial ammo currently does.

None of the gun manufacturers seem to publicly support using reloaded ammo, but Remington did tell me that the R51 was designed to work with the commercial 9 mm Luger ammunition that is available. I had contacted Remington about getting a spring with a different power rating for the use of a 147 grain bullet, since changing the spring rate is a common practice for 1911 users when changing the weight of the bullet used.  9mm Luger ammo that I have found available comes with 115 grain, 124-125 grain and 147 grain bullets, so I should be OK using a 147 grain bullet. This bullet has demonstrated superior accuracy in 9mm pistols. That is why I like it.

My new Remington R51 (Gen. 2) 
I purchased an R51 the other day for $329.00. I took it home, disassembled and cleaned it and reassembled it. Took it to the range today and found it to be accurate at 5 yards shooting with its iron sights.

During the disassembly and assembly I found that the return spring was more powerful than I had thought. In Remington's video, the presenter had no trouble compressing the spring and keeping it compressed. I found it was harder to do than it looked. I had read the manual and watched the video, but was not prepared for the force I had to apply.

The slide stop was hard to push out because it is flush with the right side of the gun. I used a small screwdriver to get it out far enough to be able to pull it out from the other side.

Reinstalling the barrel was much harder than it looked in the video. It took a fair amount of force to get the barrel down far enough into the slide in order to insert the breech assembly.

Reinstalling the slide assembly took some patience and effort, but that was visible in Remington's video.

When I got to the range today, the slide locked up after each shot. I was worried until I remembered that the insertion of the slide stop required that the bottom ledge be inserted under an exposed leg of a spring. I pulled the slide stop out part way and saw I had not installed it correctly. I made sure the slide stop was rotated all the way down when I pushed it back in. This solved the problem and I went through about 25 rounds without a problem. I used a full mag with a round in the chamber and fired without a problem and used the mag release in each direction when releasing the mag.

Shooting this gun is a very pleasant experience. The recoil is noticeably less that in my Springfield Range Officer in 9mm, even though this gun is smaller and lighter. Unfortunately the muzzle blast is significantly louder when firing. This is due to the barrel being an inch shorter in the R51 than in my 1911. The trigger does break cleanly, but the 1911's trigger is better. Trigger control (keeping the sight on target when firing) was very good. I have more trouble with trigger control with my revolvers than I did with this automatic, even though they all have pivoting triggers. The white dot sights are highly visible and very easy to see. I am very happy with this gun.

I remembered all the trouble I had learning how to assemble and disassemble my 1911 until I had done it several times. The R51 is actually much simpler and after just one attempt I am now comfortable breaking it down and reassembling it.

An unusual and interesting piece of information was in the owners manual. It said to use only non-congealing lubricants. They recommended using Rem Oil which is what I had used. I know what the word congeal means, but I have never seen a lubricant specification for congealing. I called Remington's Customer Service for more information. They said some products like Frog Lube will congeal. I asked them if a grease I wanted to use (Cherry Balmz) would congeal. They checked and said it would be OK to use. I was impressed that they apparently had a chart of which lubes congeal and which lubes don't.

I will field strip the gun tomorrow and use some of Cherry Balmz Black Rifle grease when I reassemble the gun. I like the Cherry Balmz product because it is the only product that lets my Marvel .22LR adapter feed reliably (450 rounds without cleaning). This is the most accurate .22 I own (5/8" group for 5 rounds @ 50 yards). I have had it 5 or 6 years but have always had trouble with unreliable feeding. One coat of this stuff cured the problem. I was concerned that a grease would impede the timing of the action of my R51, and did not want to take a chance of inducing a problem in a gun that has had a poor initial history of reliability. I'll find out how well it works in the R51 this week.

I saw the new r-51 at a Remington exhibit at Proshots indoor gun range in Rural Hall, NC a few months ago. There were 4 of them, some with the laser option and some without. I could handle them and dry fire them, but I was not allowed to fire them. A few days ago I emailed Remington about the status of the r51 and this is what I received today:

Service Ticket Response

Image Blocked

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
Good morning , the r51 is not out yet, with no exact date of production as they are still in testing.Shouldnt be much longer ,Thank you.



Thank you and best regards,
Remington Customer Services

I have other guns to shoot and reload for, so I can wait for this guy a little longer.

I just got a reply from Remington about the release date for the R51. Here it is"

Service Ticket Response

Image Blocked

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
Good morning , the r51 is not out yet, with no exact date of production as they are still in testing. Shouldn't be much longer ,Thank you.



Thank you and best regards,
Remington Customer Services