This afternoon I took the R51 for a second try with the same results. When I insert a full magazine and rack the slide the first round will not chamber....it appears to get stuck as in on the verge of leaving the magazine but not quite. I tried repeatedly with both mags that came with the pistol and I tried two types of ammo; white box win again and Hornady 115 gr FTX critical defense. I do not think it is me as I have numerous other pistols and have never had this happen before. If anyone has a suggestion then please let me know.
I did continue to shoot using both types of ammunition and this little gun is accurate in my hands at 15 yards. I am pleased with groupings and recoil is nothing or close to it.
I really like this little jewel and just need to make a seven shooter out of it instead of six. The gun functions flawlessly if I only put 6 rds in the mag.
I have had a couple of problems with the full 7 rounds in the mag. The good new is that if I just giggle the slide the cartridge goes into the chamber.. that said it has only happened a few times out of around 200 rounds shot so far. it eats up my reloads with both 100 gr and 147 gr. I really need another mould the 100 gr. bullet jams in my ruger p-95 and I didn't have much faith in it in the Remington. The factory jhp shoots around 4 inches low that isn't a problem in a self defense handgun. my 100 gr and 147 gr. cast shoot more to point of aim. I was ready to send it to Remington for repair until I found out I had put it together with out the spring being on top of the slide release. now I am convinced the little pistol is a keeper. I would trust it to carry now. glad I spent the money. Remington needs to put into the take down video what happens when it is put together wrong and how to tell. a simple fix.
Thanks for the input. I now install loaded mag with slide locked back and all is well, rocking the slide did not work for me. I continue to shoot without any new issues. I went through my old holster collection and found a DeSantis #02 pocket holster that works very well and still need to find a decent OWB leather rig. Have a great day
My R51 misbehaves with more than 4 rounds in the magazine. The bullets jam against the bent piece that keeps the follower from popping out the top. The bullets jam horizontal.
Both magazines appear to be at fault. I think it's a bad magazine design.
Any opinions?
sirbrian, you may be onto something and it would be interesting to try each others magazines and see if the problems moved with the swap. I do have the same issue with both of my mags, just the first round with seven in the magazine. The problem is the same with both of your magazines is the way I understand your issue. I may purchase another mag or two and see if anything changes.
Good luck.
When bullets are first put into the magazine they are angled up. As more are added to the magazine, they increasingly lay flat and I can mimic the jam issue by pushing the bullet forward and causing it to catch on the bent area. I think the cartridges are so tightly packed in the magazine that they no longer tilt upwards.
I experimented a bit by grinding the height of the bent area down a bit. The bullet no longer jams against it. I still need to go to the range to check and see if what I did helps. I lowered the height of the area about a tenth of an inch.
Any one else looking for a solution to this?
Hope it works out.
I tried a modified magazine as mentioned previously and had no failures. As a reminder, I removed about a tenth of an inch from the bent part of the magazine that the tip of the bullet was catching on.
Attached is a picture of how the bullets snag on the magazine.
I think what is happening is when fired, all the bullets jerk forward and sit against the front of the magazine and when moving up catch on the bent area. I also noticed the bullet bases don't line up in the magazine. They all sit at different angles because the back of the magazine is wide.
I hate reverse engineering something that the manufacturer should have gotten correct in the first place. I like the gun and hope someone fixes the magazines. what I did is just a band aid.
Good to know that a fix was found for your issues. Looking at your pic I see what you meant about the rounds having no upward angle. I am not having that drastic leveling of rounds as more are added into the mag, just the seventh. I think I will try your fix on one mag. what method did you use to remove that 1/10th inch of metal.
Quote from: sirbrian on October 09, 2016, 07:23:50 PM
My R51 misbehaves with more than 4 rounds in the magazine. The bullets jam against the bent piece that keeps the follower from popping out the top. The bullets jam horizontal.
Both magazines appear to be at fault. I think it's a bad magazine design.
Any opinions?
Sir Brian,
I thought it was my imagination, you described my problem to a tee. After the first four cartridges are removed from the mag, the last three almost jump out by theirselves.
Both mags are this way.
This could cause problems in feeding, as any little drag will cause FTF. Remington needs to address this.
I have taken a look at mags from two other single stack pistols in the area that sirbrian removed the metal from on his R51 mag. and the front on both are open. Is anyone aware of another pistol that uses magazines with this metal protrusion at bullet end of the cartridge? Why is this metal present on the R51 magazines?
Quote from: sirbrian on October 10, 2016, 08:23:43 PM
I tried a modified magazine as mentioned previously and had no failures. As a reminder, I removed about a tenth of an inch from the bent part of the magazine that the tip of the bullet was catching on.
Attached is a picture of how the bullets snag on the magazine.
I think what is happening is when fired, all the bullets jerk forward and sit against the front of the magazine and when moving up catch on the bent area. I also noticed the bullet bases don't line up in the magazine. They all sit at different angles because the back of the magazine is wide.
I hate reverse engineering something that the manufacturer should have gotten correct in the first place. I like the gun and hope someone fixes the magazines. what I did is just a band aid.
Sir Brian,
Have you o9r anybody else noticed that the cartridges are staggered in the magazine almost like an HC mag? Just wondering. I checked my mags on all my semi-autos and none of them
have that piece of metal there against the nose of the projectile.
I used a dremel tool to remove metal, then made sure there was no burr for the bullet end to catch on, and polished the area with a buffing wheel to reduce friction.
Thanks for the information sirbrian I will post my results after magazine modification and range trip.
Quote from: oldmagnolia on September 30, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
This afternoon I took the R51 for a second try with the same results. When I insert a full magazine and rack the slide the first round will not chamber....it appears to get stuck as in on the verge of leaving the magazine but not quite. I tried repeatedly with both mags that came with the pistol and I tried two types of ammo; white box win again and Hornady 115 gr FTX critical defense. I do not think it is me as I have numerous other pistols and have never had this happen before. If anyone has a suggestion then please let me know.
I did continue to shoot using both types of ammunition and this little gun is accurate in my hands at 15 yards. I am pleased with groupings and recoil is nothing or close to it.
I really like this little jewel and just need to make a seven shooter out of it instead of six. The gun functions flawlessly if I only put 6 rds in the mag.
I had that happen today, Old Magnolia. I took a flashlight and looked under the cartridge, and the rim was stuck under the edge of the breech block. Dang, I wish I had taken a photo.
This happens with different brands of cartridge. And what really chaps my jaws is that Winchesters USA Forged steel casing ammo, never does this. The bullet is leaning up
on the ramp, and the cartridge is at a 45 degree angle, with the rear stuck under the bottom front edge of the breech block. maybe if we all consolidate our symptoms with the
magazines and send them to Remington, they can figure out what is going on. I can shoot all day with FMJ, and +P, but some cartridges just get stuck under the breech block.
I can pound, wiggle, shake and the only I can ease the situation, is to pull the slide back, eject the mag and let the stuck cartridge fall out of the gun.
I am gonna start taking photos.
This is what my first round does with just about every type of ammo.
I pull the slide back, and release it and the first cartridge jams like this.
forgive the photo quality.
Quote from: oldmagnolia on September 30, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
This afternoon I took the R51 for a second try with the same results. When I insert a full magazine and rack the slide the first round will not chamber....it appears to get stuck as in on the verge of leaving the magazine but not quite. I tried repeatedly with both mags that came with the pistol and I tried two types of ammo; white box win again and Hornady 115 gr FTX critical defense. I do not think it is me as I have numerous other pistols and have never had this happen before. If anyone has a suggestion then please let me know.
I did continue to shoot using both types of ammunition and this little gun is accurate in my hands at 15 yards. I am pleased with groupings and recoil is nothing or close to it.
I really like this little jewel and just need to make a seven shooter out of it instead of six. The gun functions flawlessly if I only put 6 rds in the mag.
oldmagnolia,
This is what my first round does, I pull the slide back, release it, and I get this.
(Forgive the photo quality.
A bit more information on my magazine.
I examined a magazine more closely by removing the base plate and spring then loading 7 rounds in the magazine. The magazine was then inserted in the gun and the plastic retention plate at the bottom was flush with the bottom of the magazine. As I racked the gun the retention plate went beyond the end of the magazine. This is the cause of the binding with 7 rounds loaded. If the base plate were inserted, the retention plate would have jammed against it.
My fix was to removed about two tenths of an inch from the four fingers at the bottom of the follower. I also cut the spring short by 2 loops at the bottom end. I can now chamber a fully loaded magazine. I tried it at the range with four magazines worth of ammo and it worked nicely.
This is my fix until the factory comes up with a real fix. 8)
Quote from: oldmagnolia on September 30, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
This afternoon I took the R51 for a second try with the same results. When I insert a full magazine and rack the slide the first round will not chamber....it appears to get stuck as in on the verge of leaving the magazine but not quite. I tried repeatedly with both mags that came with the pistol and I tried two types of ammo; white box win again and Hornady 115 gr FTX critical defense. I do not think it is me as I have numerous other pistols and have never had this happen before. If anyone has a suggestion then please let me know.
I did continue to shoot using both types of ammunition and this little gun is accurate in my hands at 15 yards. I am pleased with groupings and recoil is nothing or close to it.
I really like this little jewel and just need to make a seven shooter out of it instead of six. The gun functions flawlessly if I only put 6 rds in the mag.
Old Magnolia,
If I put one cartridge in the mag, and rack the slide, it goes into the breach. Then I reload the mag. Other than that, I love shooting this little pistol.
I guess it is a "love hate relationship"!
Old Magnolia,
I have found a solution, I believe. I started to do the following when I am shooting.
I open the slide. Then insert a fully loaded magazine. I then pull the slide back and
release it. It closes every time. I have been to the range twice and shot and shot
and shot. No problems at all. I shot Winchester white box, Winchester USA forged,
Blazer Brass, Ruger ARX and Sig Sauer V Crown. All went bang, fed and went bang
all after noon. If I leave the slide closed, insert a fully loaded mag, I cannot pull the
slide back, or if it does come back, when I let it forward, it does like the two
photos I uploaded. Still hate the Action Spring when I clean the piece.
Love to shoot it all day, hate to clean it once. I am considering getting three
bowls and putting Hoppe's Powder Solvent in one, swish the pistol around.
Hoppe's gun oil in one, swish the gun, and letting
the gun drain in the third one. Then clean the bore. Bit drastic huh?
Some more on my magazine fix.
I shot 100 rounds today with no failures. I loaded 7 rounds in the magazine, racked it, and fired all 7 rounds with no issues.
My fix works and I'll stick with it until Remington fesses up and fixes the mags.
Quote from: sirbrian on October 29, 2016, 07:49:34 PM
Some more on my magazine fix.
I shot 100 rounds today with no failures. I loaded 7 rounds in the magazine, racked it, and fired all 7 rounds with no issues.
My fix works and I'll stick with it until Remington fesses up and fixes the mags.
This very well be the solution to the issue, did you try the mod before cutting the spring first?
New here. I'm thinking of using some of my Cabela's VISA card points on an R51 but am waiting for the "Gen 2" to be as bug free as a concealed carry gun ought to be.
The discussion on the full mag - slide racking problem is great info, sorry to see there are still some problems but pleased people are finding fixes too. I think this next question fits in with that problem discussion:
Is the R51 a 7+1 or a 6+1 Capacity?
What I am wondering about is if after you lock the slide open, put in the full magazine and release the slide, what will happen if you then take the magazine out, add a round to top it off and put it back in the gun? Do you now have a working and trustworthy 8 rounds in the pistol? Or does it jam trying to eject and feed over a full 7 in the magazine?
Quote from: enuf on November 05, 2016, 04:31:39 AM
New here. I'm thinking of using some of my Cabela's VISA card points on an R51 but am waiting for the "Gen 2" to be as bug free as a concealed carry gun ought to be.
The discussion on the full mag - slide racking problem is great info, sorry to see there are still some problems but pleased people are finding fixes too. I think this next question fits in with that problem discussion:
Is the R51 a 7+1 or a 6+1 Capacity?
What I am wondering about is if after you lock the slide open, put in the full magazine and release the slide, what will happen if you then take the magazine out, add a round to top it off and put it back in the gun? Do you now have a working and trustworthy 8 rounds in the pistol? Or does it jam trying to eject and feed over a full 7 in the magazine?
enuf,
I top off the magazine, and the gun feeds well, Fires the one in the chamber and then feeds all 7 from the Magazine. Using this method, I have not had a problem since.
and I have shot a ton of ammo, including Winchester USA Forged. (Steel casings)
Just remember, do not let your hand follow the slide forward. Let it slam home.
P.S. The Magazine holds 7 rounds. plus one in the chamber.
Happy Shooting!
P.S. The R51 Mag holds 7 + 1 in the chamber.
To answer valvestems question,
No I did not try leaving the full length spring in after modifying the follower. My experience as an engineer and my understanding of springs lead me to remove the two coils. When springs are compressed they have a linear functioning range and then they what is called a knee point. That is where the pressure required to compress the spring rises rapidly.
In my magazine I measured the knee point before 7 rounds were inserted with a compression gauge. That is why I removed two coils of the spring.
I have also noticed that it is very difficult to rack the slide with a full mag. However, I am not quite ready to cut the spring yet. I had a SA EMP that had the same problem when it was new. But after the mag springs took a set, it was no longer an issue. So I will give mine some time before modifying anything.
The 4 magazines that came with the 2 R51's that my wife and I own fail to chamber the 1st of the 7 rounds when the slide is racked back after the magazine is inserted. The 1st round gets nose dived into the mag when the slide moves backwards. If the slide is locked back before inserting the 7 round mag it usually chambers ok. Both guns are Gen2 and came with 2 mags each. The Rem phone helper a year ago said he has the same problem and the engineers are looking at the problem. He recommended that I carry only 6 rounds. The nose dive doesn't occur with 6 rounds. So, I carry an empty chamber and a 6 round mag. I haven't seen notification from Rem that the mags have been changed. Does anyone know if Rem actually studied the 7 round problem and have released improved mags?
For me shortening the legs on the follower made it much easier to rack the slide with a full magazine. On thing that I did to my six magazines that hasn't been mentioned is to polish the underside of the tab at the front of the magazine. Using an empty case, 357 mag works great, drag in against the underside of that tab and it will probably scratch the case. I used a Dremel felt tip and polishing compound until the case would slide against the bottom of the tab like glass. I did these two things before firing a shot and both of my R51s have been 100% reliable.
I have very little confidence in my ability to modify guns or even magazines. However, since magazines are "relatively" cheap, I may make similar changes to 1 mag and test it out before changing any others. If I do, I will post my results.
Shortening the legs on the follower works very well with the seven loaded in the magazine.
I shortened them 1/8"
Another thing to consider is the tab in the front of the magazine, like pmf41 mentioned. If you
insert the magazine into the pistol with the slide back, you will notice that the tab is used to push
the round back to keep it from hitting the barrel ramp on its way up. I used a pair of pliers to
bend the tab up enough to still keep the rounds clear of the barrel ramp, but still give more
room in the magazine for them to move. I used a small file to take the sharp edge off of the tab.
It seems to work very well this way.
I've been eyeballing the tabs, but haven't touched one yet.
I dipped a toothpick into white fingernail polish and made a dot on the side of the follower through one of the 2 holes near the top of an empty magazine. When filing the follower legs I could visually see how much I could shorten and still allow for the follower to cover the 2 holes on an empty magazine. I set the angle of the follower legs onto a carpenters bevel to insure the correct angle when filing was finished. I just rubbed the follower back and forth on a flat file until I removed enough. Didn't really need the bevel. The top of 7 rounds now feeds ok if I am not slow or weak about racking.
i have 6 mags, 2 gen 1 and the others gen 2. all have been tweaked in the tab areas by straightening them a bit and removing any sharp edges. followers in the gen 1 pair were trimmed 1/16 inch. still needs more. i mainly run the gen2 mags. reliability is not an issue and i can cycle federal hydro shock through without a problem
Tested my mag with the shortened follower at the range. Two 50 round boxes of Federal Syntech. Hand racked the 1st of each 7 round mag (14 mags). Only 1 nose dived, but I think it was my fault not getting the slide back far enough. A simple 2nd rack pushed it in. (This 1st round racking could have been tested at home rather than at the range, but I wanted to test the cycling with the shortened magazine follower.) The gun functioned flawlessly through the 100 rounds.
After seeing a utube video where the shooter had that nosedive hangup on hollow points, I took it upon myself to grind just a little off that front edge. Didn't seem to hurt anything and I don't have any nose dive jams.