Quote from: SCurmudgeon on March 29, 2017, 08:00:41 AM
I agree, there is a bit of a mixed message.  Put a product in a fancy package and the new and uninitiated will flock to it.  So what if it isn't the best option for them to start with.  But Taurus' current marketing info doesn't claim this is a good gun for beginners (at least not that I've seen).  Rather they say they are "shaping the future of everyday carry."  Since this is a carry pistol and if you are serious about everyday carry, I think it presupposes that you know something about shooting - or it should.

The problem comes in with the misconception many have about new women shooters and guns - small person, small gun.  This is perpetuated when retailers and boyfriends give bad advice.  I wonder how many people recommending micro blowback 380s to new shooters have ever shot one.

Agreed. I think the "future of EDC" line applies to new carriers since a bunch of curmudgeonny experienced guys aren't gonna buy a taurus blowback .380 in technicolor. changing gears... You'd think people'd be serious but the fact is new shooters don't know what they don't know and the people selling guns don't care, they just care about the bottom line.

Just last week I was meandering through a Gander Mtn hoping for "we're bankrupt, buy something" sales (with no luck) and helped a couple with exactly that problem: middle aged-older gal was looking at something the size of a P238. Guy with her was watching while the sales guy had her right hand on the counter, left hand trying to slingshot the slide...slowly and she couldn't. I walked by at first, not wanting to butt into the conversation (because I do have a bad habit of butting in and being a knowitall) but had to come back, when they proved completely unhelpful, to suggest she take her hand off the counter, hold the slide firmly in her left hand and punch with her right. "Wow that was really easy, thanks" while the sales guy sputters "I was gonna...just about to...getting to that...". Yea sure buddy. She was struggling for over a minute and you just watched confusedly.

Quote from: Texas-Mark on March 31, 2017, 03:58:03 PM
I guess it would depend on the price. Having owned one, I now know what to look for. And while Remington may not warranty it, a reputable gun shop will give a limited warranty on used guns.

^This.

Being mechanically inclined and having multiple firearms handy does much to alleviate such nervousness but I understand the trepidation of those in different situations. Much like how I have multiple functioning cars that I do all the work on (except tire mounting and engine machining) I have to stop and think a bit when someone says their car is in the shop and they need a ride/borrow a car/can't do X activity. If someone were looking for a first or only gun, no I would not suggest it.

Don't forget that with any survey, you have to look at who you're surveying. Many people go on a forum specifically because they are having problems.

Also consider common customer support stats: for every complaint, there are typically a few unreported problems but hundreds of non-complaining people.

Quote from: 1911SHOOTER on March 24, 2017, 10:52:31 AM
russc2542,
     I have to tell ya, my R51, my R51 shoots everything I put in it.   Even the junk rolling around in the bottom of my range bag. 
I can't think of any ammo I have shot in it with any malfunction, except Tula, and I won't shoot Russian ammo.   I did shoot Winchester USA Forged, and it ran fine.
Aluminium case too,   I will say I have not shot any of the top end JHP stuff as I use Ruger ARX Polycase for carry.
Blackie

Good advice on the used or rental.  Some of us on here had to use up a lot of time and
ammo to get our pistils running well enough to trust.

mine runs on anything too, it just runs better on the hotter stuff. I reload so I ran a spectrum of stuff plus half a dozen factory loads through mine one range session and I gotta say I'd never realized how different the various manufacturers are. the key take-away is that with the soft loads, I could just about feel each of the different movements inside the gun: initial locking, unlocking/locking block articulation, stripping the next round, (barely) pushing it into the chamber, etc. With the warmer loads it all blended into a smoother single impulse.

I've heard a few gun makers are trying to attract a younger crowd now already in gun circles. Makes sense with all the news of gun ownership rising. I'm in the camp of form following function (though still relevant). I do understand many people, especially those outside existing gun circles, don't look at it the same way. The biggest problem is it's almost a disservice to these new owners to give them a simple blowback micro with the associated handling issues. Same reason (unless you want to scare and/or injure them) you start a new shooter small and work up to the .500 S&W.

Glad to hear you tried out a variety and more than just the conventional options. I also have a CCP and would agree that it is very comfortable for it's size (I have big mitts). As far as recoil reduction vs the R51, it's tailored to different loads I remember when I first got the R51 I took about half a dozen varieties of ammo to try out and was surprised how much of a difference there was. Because the CCP uses a gas-delay piston it'll be more sensitive to what it eats. Mine doesn't care much for fast powders or hot loadings wheras the R51 was designed for +P and runs better on hotter ammo.

I like my CCP but I'll be honest: they only have about a 50-70% "would suggest it to a friend" rating on the Walther forums and just announced an all-encompassing recall. There are a couple things to check for (gritty trigger, almost-falling out strip of metal from machining, model revisions) and some that can only be found through testing (FTF, FTE, mag dropping). Mine's been  pretty good but I'd suggest buying a used or rental CCP that you have an opportunity to shoot before buying.

I didn't care for the ergos of the shield and haven't tried the glock so I can't speak on them.

Picky, aren't ya guys? Finally got in though. Just another guy with a thing for oddball stuff, hence being here. Guns, cars, bikes, etc.