R-51 version 2

GunFrogg · July 17, 2016, 10:16:50 AM

The new R-51 feels in the hand exactly like the original except this one works every time so far. I have about 420 rounds though it, and not a single malfunction - although this is still early testing, and I have no idea how well it gets along with different ammo types yet.

I like to do a disassemble, clean and inspection on new guns after a short shooting. Helps me quickly find high wear points to lube, and improve my confidence in reliability.

Only thing I noted of importance on inspection after my first firing was the two angled surfaces the breech block mates with on the slide were slightly peened. Not unexpected with this type of recoil method. So, buffed them out, and noted as lube point.

One thing that impressed me was the notch on the frame that the breech block slams up against has no dings or noticeable wear yet. On my first R-51 it was very dinged up after about 50 rounds.

Shooting this gun for me is very easy. It fits me well and naturally points which is why I purchased it. Only thing I had to do was change my support had a little as I dropped the mag during recoil once. Not an issues shooting one handed. Did this on the original R-51. I did let one of my students shoot the gun, and he also dropped the mag. After I told him why it happen, he had no problem adjusting, and never dropped again. He also shot well out to 7 yards - first time he ever held an R-51, and a very new handgun shooter. The student also felt pointed well for him. Only complaint he had was the recoil was hard on his hand due to it being very narrow and all metal.

Well I think this is enough info for now. I plan to keep the R-51 in my range bag to ensure it gets at least 25 rounds every range session. If it keeps up performing like it started, I'm gonna get a holster for it, and it will become my little carry buddy :-).

wa2bop · July 21, 2016, 11:48:45 AM

Hi folks,
It's been quite a while since I've posted here. I received my Gen2 R51 about ten or twelve days ago. My observations mirror those of GunFrogg, I'm favorably impressed, the fit, finish and function are considerably improved over the first iteration.
My first trip to the range was quite satisfactory.

I had a chance to fire the pistol mostly with my own hand loads which use a 124 gr lead bullet over a very light load of Bullseye. There were some fails to cycle which I attribute entirely to my very light loads, however with factory ball ammo there were no problems at all, including no case bulging or functional fails, even with the original magazines.

With the heat here in North Carolina I haven't returned to the range till this morning. The intention being more firing, including a mix of defensive ammo, and +P. This has followed a field strip and clean after the first session, and I admit a bunch of dry fire at home. I load her up and....click. To make a long story short, the firing pin does not move freely, it acts as though the FP return spring is broken and jammed in the breech block. One bent pin punch later I have not been able to remove what looks like the firing pin retaining pin.

I've sent a note via email to Remington, to the individual who contacted me ref the Gen2 return.

This is somewhat frustrating, I really, really don't want to return this pistol once again.
Any suggestion welcome.
Barry

RED HORSE · July 21, 2016, 09:08:23 PM

Visit to local gunsmith sounds in order to me. Remington isn't getting this one back I can promise you that.

wa2bop · July 22, 2016, 09:47:43 AM

Well, good news for us customers. After sending an email yesterday,as described in my previous post, this morning I got a phone call from Remington confirming my address, and assuring me a new breech block is in the mail. The caller thanked me for the r and d field work.
That's good customer service, and also a warning about dry firing the R51 without a snap cap.
Barry

GunFrogg · July 22, 2016, 03:26:10 PM

Hey there wa2bop. Do I understand correctly that we should not dry fire the R51 without a snap cap?.

Glad to hear a brand new breech block is heading your way.

wa2bop · July 22, 2016, 05:04:38 PM

Dry fire seems to have broken my firing pin spring.

SPRic · July 27, 2016, 11:03:18 PM

I find it interesting that the R51 Owners manual mentions dry firing only in the note on page 20 where it says "Do not pull the trigger ("dry fire") while the Slide is removed."

The term "snap cap" is not used anywhere in the manual.

GunFrogg · August 13, 2016, 07:56:45 AM

Got a call this week from Remington asking how I liked my R51, and if the FFL dealer they shipped it to charged me anything (they would reimburse if they did). I let them know I had no charges, and I like the R51 a lot.

I did ask about dry firing problems during the call due to wa2bop's experience with failed fire pin operation. Dry firing is a very common thing with me, and I don't get how using a snap cap would help, as the cap just keeps the FP tip from penning, but R51 FP tip does not hit anything when it strikes. However, it is possible a FP stop surface that is inside the breach block is hitting something - Just a SWAG here :-) The rep that called had not heard of any dry fire problems, but stated she was not a tech. She suggested I email Remington the question, and she would put the my dry fire question in her call record.

lklawson · August 15, 2016, 11:31:07 AM

Quote from: GunFrogg on August 13, 2016, 07:56:45 AM
Got a call this week from Remington asking how I liked my R51, and if the FFL dealer they shipped it to charged me anything (they would reimburse if they did). I let them know I had no charges, and I like the R51 a lot.

I did ask about dry firing problems during the call due to wa2bop's experience with failed fire pin operation. Dry firing is a very common thing with me, and I don't get how using a snap cap would help, as the cap just keeps the FP tip from penning, but R51 FP tip does not hit anything when it strikes. However, it is possible a FP stop surface that is inside the breach block is hitting something - Just a SWAG here :-) The rep that called had not heard of any dry fire problems, but stated she was not a tech. She suggested I email Remington the question, and she would put the my dry fire question in her call record.

Peening the tip of the pin or the striking surface is really just a problem with rimfire guns. Centerfire guns, the FP doesn't impact on anything. However, most centerfire firing pin configurations need some way to keep the FP in the action, where it belongs. Sometimes the FP is tapered. Sometimes the firing pin channel is tapered. Or both. Or something else. In the Kel Tec PF9, the firing pin is retained by a threaded screw, which doubles for a rear sight retaining screw.

Most modern firearms are capable of dry firing without harm. There are some which, due to the design, can be harmed. In the aforementioned case of the PF9, dry firing will cause the cutout in the FP to impact the threads of the retaining screw, which damages them and can make it impossible to remove the screw. Some older guns have designs or metallurgy which make it unwise to dry fire.

Snap caps remove all doubt from the issue. I suspect that the R51 is safe to dry fire. I've done so probably 25 or 50 times. However, I like to use the snap caps because it helps practice and maintenance of loading, unloading, cycling, and tap-rack-bang-drill habits.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

RED HORSE · August 15, 2016, 05:10:04 PM

Reports on another site of Gen 2 R51 firing when magazine is "slammed" home. Scary thought. https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=494262&page=3

TJB63 · August 16, 2016, 04:50:53 PM

Good Post lklawson, I just watched a Hickok45 of him doing that very thing with a PF9 - I'm screaming at the YouTube, Don't Dry Fire it!!! -- He might of heard me. Snap Caps are Always best for any Firearm in my opinion, Why risk it when you don't have too.(Cheap Insurance)

Hopefully, My R51 will be in the shop tomorrow.

TJB

lklawson · August 17, 2016, 06:48:01 AM

Quote from: RED HORSE on August 15, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
Reports on another site of Gen 2 R51 firing when magazine is "slammed" home. Scary thought. https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=494262&page=3

In bright red letters. Page 15 in the original manual. I think it's page 9 in the new one.

"WARNING! Do not use excessive upward force when inserting a loaded magazine into the magazine well. Excessive upward force could cause an open slide to move forward, chambering a cartridge. An unintentional or uncontrolled discharge of your firearm may cause property damage, personal injury and/or death."