Magazine quality control.

[1911SHOOTER]

Blackie, to clarify I'm talking the size of the the mag well in the gun frame, not the 9mm magazine itself.
R51Fan is kinda asking why the mag well is oversized for 9mm?
A good question... Joe

Joe,
   point well taken.   something to think about.  But if Big Green cannot make a working mag for the R51 9mm, who's to say
they can do it for any other calibre?
Blackie

[1911SHOOTER]

Fun Flyer,
     I think we are getting to the crux of the problem.   Why Big Green cannot do this
I do not know. Personnel downturn?  Let us know how the other follower works,
I am sure that Brownells or Midway will have those parts.
We may be getting down to the short rows!
I can live with the slide not locking open,  That is why we have hands.
I have been checking some of my other mag springs also.  Closest one
is the Norinco Model 213 9 MM.   But I only have one spring and do not want to
clip it.
Good catch!
Blackie   

[R51Fan2017]

I think Funflyer has gotten down to where the rubber is meeting the road so to speak. I may try the follower off of my dad's XD and see if that helps any. I don't have a S&W Shield to experiment with. I think we just about have our mag problems licked!

[lklawson]

Blackie,

They don't care.........they just send a freebe in the mail to anyone who complains.

I may have to complain just so that I can get a free mag. 

What ticks me off is that this isn't the first automatic handgun they have made. It isn't that hard to get a magazine right. Ughhhh

I have to disagree.  The magazine is the hardest part of a semi-auto to get right.  If there is a feed problem with a gun 8 times out of 10 it is related to the mag.  Even in the well-worn world of 1911's there are, and always have been, magazine issues; and it's a 100+ year old design.  Even today experts recommend that specialty "high quality" 1911 mags be purchased, Wilson Combat seems to be a common recommendation, for magazines you can depend on.

Same with Glock, noted for their emphasis on reliability ahead of all else, has had countless revisions to the magazines for their various pistols.

I don't know why.  I agree that it seems magazines should be pretty easy to do; it's a frick'n tube with a spring, follower and baseplate.  4 blasted parts.  Why should it be so hard?  But apparently it is.

go figure.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[1911SHOOTER]

FunFlyer,
     I am going to take the follower out of my #7 mag and hit it with my Dremel tool.
Round off the bottom of the legs and see what happens.
Thanks for the tip.
Blackie

[R51Fan2017]

FunFlyer,
     I am going to take the follower out of my #7 mag and hit it with my Dremel tool.
Round off the bottom of the legs and see what happens.
Thanks for the tip.
Blackie

Keep us updated!

[funflyer]

FunFlyer,
     I am going to take the follower out of my #7 mag and hit it with my Dremel tool.
Round off the bottom of the legs and see what happens.
Thanks for the tip.
Blackie

Yes, can't wait for the report. I'm heading to the range in 30 minutes to test the Shield follower. I also have another potential problem area of the mag to discuss this afternoon.

[R51Fan2017]

Yes, can't wait for the report. I'm heading to the range in 30 minutes to test the Shield follower. I also have another potential problem area of the mag to discuss this afternoon.

Feel free to PM for my email. Me and Blackie have been batting this back and forth. Would love to get some more input.

[DUTCH Van Atlanta]

I've shelved my R51.  I am unable to get 100% reliability with my preferred CC ammo - Federal 115 grain JHP +P+.  Most failures are FTF by hanging on that front lip of the mag; and I'm sick of fooling with it.

My CZ83 is 100% reliable with any ammo, and it's only slightly more bulky than this baulky R51.

[R51Fan2017]

I've shelved my R51.  I am unable to get 100% reliability with my preferred CC ammo - Federal 115 grain JHP +P+.  Most failures are FTF by hanging on that front lip of the mag; and I'm sick of fooling with it.

My CZ83 is 100% reliable with any ammo, and it's only slightly more bulky than this baulky R51.

Dutch,

+P+? That's too hot!! It's only rated for +P. Have you straightened out the lip on the front? I am able to run Federal Hydra-Shocks JHP through mine 100% failure free. If you don't want to keep it, and depending on how much you may want to sell it for, I may just be able to relieve you of it

[1911SHOOTER]

I've shelved my R51.  I am unable to get 100% reliability with my preferred CC ammo - Federal 115 grain JHP +P+.  Most failures are FTF by hanging on that front lip of the mag; and I'm sick of fooling with it.

My CZ83 is 100% reliable with any ammo, and it's only slightly more bulky than this baulky R51.

Dutch,
     Bend the little lip on the front of the mag, straight,  that is what we are doing. I now have 8 magazines, and 6 of them are functioning
properly, and I am going to modify the other two tonight.    Also, +P+ is not recommended for the R51.   Just my opinion.
If you do not want the R51, maybe somebody on here will "adopt" it.       
It really bugs me to see a dissatisfied R51 owner.   
Blackie

[funflyer]

Okay, I had a pretty successful run with the shield follower in the R51 mag. 18 mags fired and only twice did the last round not feed, got hung up on the top of the chamber. Not bad for doing absolutely nothing to the mag or Shield follower. What I think would make it 100% reliable, except for the slide hold open,  would be to bend that lip on the front of the mag back out a bit so the follower would come up farther and keep more tension on the last round.

I also tapered the feet of one of the factory followers to see if it would smooth things out and it actually did. Using a pencil to run the follower all the way to the bottom of the mag, there was about an 75% reduction in that harsh snap, crackle and pop of the spring as it fed inside the follower. If the spring were actually straight I think it would be almost perfect.

Now for the next area that I think needs attention, the feed lips. I was trying to duplicate a round nosedive by very slowly racking a round, riding the slide forward from the time the breech block contacted the round. I found it was easy to nosedive a round into the mag with just one of my mags but couldn't ever get it to happen with the other, it would start to dive in that mag but, instead of dropping below the front lip of the mag, it would contact the feed ramp and slip right into the chamber. So, the trick here was to use some 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit sand paper to remove the machine marks from the inside of the feed lips, then polish them using my Dremel and some jeweler's rouge. Now that mag feeds better than the other.

May be one, or a combination of the things I've mentioned with the followers but I believe if all these things were done it would cure 99% of the feed problems.

[R51Fan2017]

Thanks Funflyer for the review. Now I know some things I need to do to tweak mine a little. However, on mine, I have a 100% success ratio after bending the lip forward. I need to trim the follower down for sure.

[1911SHOOTER]

 FunFlyer,
You rock!
I am going to modify my mags by tapering the followers.   Maybe I will order
an s&w follower just to use as a model.  Still think an aluminum follower
would be great but do not have access to a machine shop. 
It is a damn shame that Remington does not want to listen to their
customers who are busting their cajones to correct  Big Greens
lack of support!
Blackie   

[funflyer]

Even if a new factory magazine operates flawlessly, I wonder how many rounds it will take before issues crop up. If you look at the follower in my pic above you can see a divot forming just above the feed ramp. No wear like that should be seen after only 200 rounds through a mag.

A better plastic for a follower would be delrin (acetal).