How did this happen?

[DanOh]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

[1911SHOOTER]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

DanOh,
Wow, Never even heard of that happening to anyone.  I immediately went and checked my barrel although I had seen rifling in it.
Remington owes you big time! 
Blackie

[1911SHOOTER]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

DanOh,

     Let us know what Rem says.  I would like to know how this happened as well.  Really a bummer.  Glad you found the spare barrel.
I think I will demote my R51 back to plinker until this gets straightened out.  Makes me wonder about the quality control on the
metals used in the gun.
Blackie

[1911SHOOTER]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

DanOh,
     I just happened to think (no jokes please)  If that barrel was not processed for rifling, it may be under bored.  Could cause over pressre
on the barrel when the bullet is forced through.  Might be a good idea not to use it until Rem gives you a new barrel.
Blackie

[DanOh]

Called Remington today and spoke with "Jeff".  Very kind and professional and was as stumped as any of us about how this could have gotten out of the plant this way.  Of course I was given a RMA and shipping packaging is on the way.  I expressed my disappointment and concern about having a gun with such an obvious defect made it's way by at least four people that should have caught this.  Doesn't  anyone have their eyes on the job they're doing?  I think another reason Remington is wanting this back asap is the fact that a smooth bore pistol is a NFA item and illegal to possess, according to those who know more about that part of the law than I.  As mentioned in the previous post by 1911, I would not be surprised if the actual "bore" of this barrel is around .340-.346 looking at the height of the lands in the picture.  So, I am waiting for the packaging to arrive and then call Rem so they can call for the UPS pickup.  More on this as it develops.  I am not at all pleased that this has occurred and I told Jeff that a lot of people feel that Remington's reputation is poo-poo and as much as I have defended their name to critics who have commented about Remington products and service, I'm taking steps to their side of the field.  Not there yet but it wouldn't take much for me to join the chorus.   It's now on Remington to take the bull by the horns and make this right.

[valvestem]

All I can say is OMG!

[1911SHOOTER]

Tex, Kirk,
     Where are you?
Blackie

[Texas-Mark]

Tex, Kirk,
     Where are you?
Blackie

I've been talking with DanOh about this on another forum. This is one of the strangest things I have seen in a long time.

[1911SHOOTER]

Called Remington today and spoke with "Jeff".  Very kind and professional and was as stumped as any of us about how this could have gotten out of the plant this way.  Of course I was given a RMA and shipping packaging is on the way.  I expressed my disappointment and concern about having a gun with such an obvious defect made it's way by at least four people that should have caught this.  Doesn't  anyone have their eyes on the job they're doing?  I think another reason Remington is wanting this back asap is the fact that a smooth bore pistol is a NFA item and illegal to possess, according to those who know more about that part of the law than I.  As mentioned in the previous post by 1911, I would not be surprised if the actual "bore" of this barrel is around .340-.346 looking at the height of the lands in the picture.  So, I am waiting for the packaging to arrive and then call Rem so they can call for the UPS pickup.  More on this as it develops.  I am not at all pleased that this has occurred and I told Jeff that a lot of people feel that Remington's reputation is poo-poo and as much as I have defended their name to critics who have commented about Remington products and service, I'm taking steps to their side of the field.  Not there yet but it wouldn't take much for me to join the chorus.   It's now on Remington to take the bull by the horns and make this right.

DanOh,
The sooner you get rid of that barrel the better off you are.  The BATF has no sense of humour over these things. 
Blackie

[1911SHOOTER]

Called Remington today and spoke with "Jeff".  Very kind and professional and was as stumped as any of us about how this could have gotten out of the plant this way.  Of course I was given a RMA and shipping packaging is on the way.  I expressed my disappointment and concern about having a gun with such an obvious defect made it's way by at least four people that should have caught this.  Doesn't  anyone have their eyes on the job they're doing?  I think another reason Remington is wanting this back asap is the fact that a smooth bore pistol is a NFA item and illegal to possess, according to those who know more about that part of the law than I.  As mentioned in the previous post by 1911, I would not be surprised if the actual "bore" of this barrel is around .340-.346 looking at the height of the lands in the picture.  So, I am waiting for the packaging to arrive and then call Rem so they can call for the UPS pickup.  More on this as it develops.  I am not at all pleased that this has occurred and I told Jeff that a lot of people feel that Remington's reputation is poo-poo and as much as I have defended their name to critics who have commented about Remington products and service, I'm taking steps to their side of the field.  Not there yet but it wouldn't take much for me to join the chorus.   It's now on Remington to take the bull by the horns and make this right.

DanOh,
     Are you sending back the entire pistol?  Or just the barrel?  Just curious.
Blackie

[DanOh]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

DanOh,
     I just happened to think (no jokes please)  If that barrel was not processed for rifling, it may be under bored.  Could cause over pressre
on the barrel when the bullet is forced through.  Might be a good idea not to use it until Rem gives you a new barrel.
Blackie


I slugged the barrel and the results are close to what I thought.  The entire pistol is going back to Remington.  I asked if they could just send me a barrel and I was told they had to fit it and wanted to check out the complete gun.  However, on page 32 of the Owner's Manual they state if you need "additional barrels" call them.  WTF??  Also, I ran a program where I substituted the actual cross sectional area with the real bore size and where chamber pressure was around 30k psi with a load, it was up to around 33k psi with the barrel.

[1911SHOOTER]

I have owned my R51 for close to a year. I have really enjoyed shooting it and have been impressed with many things about it.  I have defended the R51 against those who poo-poo not only the gun but Remington and their "new" reputation that has evolved over the past several years about the quality of their firearms and customer service.  Now I'm beginning to be concerned myself about it all. 
I purchased one of the new Gen 1 barrels from Ebay and when I received it I noticed one thing right off, shocking to say the least.  You see, my pistol came from the factory without grooves in the barrel  .  I noticed this the first time I took the gun apart before shooting it and thought, "what is this?".  No grooves?? I wonder what that is all about. I took it to the range and put a few hundred rounds through it and no problems, shot well and I was putting rounds into a four inch square bullseye at 50' so that is as well as I can shoot my other guns.  I had never had the opportunity to examine any other R51s so I had no reason to think this was not the way it was designed other than the fact about what I know about lands and grooves and bullet spin, but the shooting results did not reflect what the lack of grooves should have done to accuracy.  I will be calling Remington today and see what their reaction and plans are to make this right.  Below in the picture, the barrel that came with my gun is on the left and the Ebay barrel is on the right.  Remington, I'm not too happy right now. Especially the fact that something like this can leave the factory.  Who is looking at these guns before they leave?  Do you even have quality control inspectors?  How did a barrel with no grooves leave the fab shop?  How did that barrel get put into a gun, surely there must have been a bin of barrels to pick from in assembling the gun, why did the person assembling the gun not look at the barrel before putting it in my gun?  Even though I like the R51, this may well be my last Remington.  This makes me glad that something more critical that could have resulted in injury did not happen, but now I'm concerned it could if no one is checking better than this.


sorry, my picture will not load.  the size is only 214kb but says the file is too big.  if I get it figured out I'll edit the post or post it seperate.

Let's try this:

DanOh,
     I just happened to think (no jokes please)  If that barrel was not processed for rifling, it may be under bored.  Could cause over pressre
on the barrel when the bullet is forced through.  Might be a good idea not to use it until Rem gives you a new barrel.
Blackie


I slugged the barrel and the results are close to what I thought.  The entire pistol is going back to Remington.  I asked if they could just send me a barrel and I was told they had to fit it and wanted to check out the complete gun.  However, on page 32 of the Owner's Manual they state if you need "additional barrels" call them.  WTF??  Also, I ran a program where I substituted the actual cross sectional area with the real bore size and where chamber pressure was around 30k psi with a load, it was up to around 33k psi with the barrel.

DanOh,
     I just looked in the manual, I think that thing about extra barrels pertains to Rem shotguns.
I am really concerned about how Remington is going to handle this fiasco of theirs. Not the best way to get back in the groove after the Gen 1 fiasco, HUh?
I have about 2000 rounds in my R51, with no problems, but I still took it off my carry list of guns.  The way I look at it, screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice
shame on me.  It will be a while before I trust this little gun again.  Oh well it makes a great tin can shooter.
Blackie
Blackie

[DanOh]

I'm already having second thoughts about sending the gun to them for repair. I have one of the Ebay barrels and ordered another today.  With what I've read about their service department and the time it takes for repair work, I think it would be ridiculous to go through all that with them.  I may just send the smooth bore barrel to the ATF and give them the story and let them handle it from there.  I've got some real debating to do with myself.  I really can't see any benefit at all of sending it to them and I already shot my pistol with the new barrel and it's fine.  I think I'm just going to tell them I'll trade the smooth bore barrel to them for a couple of magazines and call it good.  I'm sure they rather have the barrel than the ATF, lol.

[1911SHOOTER]

I'm already having second thoughts about sending the gun to them for repair. I have one of the Ebay barrels and ordered another today.  With what I've read about their service department and the time it takes for repair work, I think it would be ridiculous to go through all that with them.  I may just send the smooth bore barrel to the ATF and give them the story and let them handle it from there.  I've got some real debating to do with myself.  I really can't see any benefit at all of sending it to them and I already shot my pistol with the new barrel and it's fine.  I think I'm just going to tell them I'll trade the smooth bore barrel to them for a couple of magazines and call it good.  I'm sure they rather have the barrel than the ATF, lol.

DanOh,
     Be careful,  Rem has some big lawyers.  Destroy the bad barrel,  use the Ebay barrel, and move along.  Mention the  BATF to the folks at Remington and all kinds of crap
will start hitting the fan.  With the new barrel, you are ahead of the game.  Stay that way.   Take the bad barrel to a body shop, and have them cut it up for scrap.
Just my opinion.
Blackie



   

[DanOh]

I'm already having second thoughts about sending the gun to them for repair. I have one of the Ebay barrels and ordered another today.  With what I've read about their service department and the time it takes for repair work, I think it would be ridiculous to go through all that with them.  I may just send the smooth bore barrel to the ATF and give them the story and let them handle it from there.  I've got some real debating to do with myself.  I really can't see any benefit at all of sending it to them and I already shot my pistol with the new barrel and it's fine.  I think I'm just going to tell them I'll trade the smooth bore barrel to them for a couple of magazines and call it good.  I'm sure they rather have the barrel than the ATF, lol.

DanOh,
     Be careful,  Rem has some big lawyers.  Destroy the bad barrel,  use the Ebay barrel, and move along.  Mention the  BATF to the folks at Remington and all kinds of crap
will start hitting the fan.  With the new barrel, you are ahead of the game.  Stay that way.   Take the bad barrel to a body shop, and have them cut it up for scrap.
Just my opinion.
Blackie



   

Oh that was said in jest, I'm not like that and don't need all the drama for so little.  Besides, I paid for it and I own it so there is little they can really say or do about it.  But the more I think about it I am not liking a long turnaround or sending my gun to Bubba's Gun Palace in Butlick, lol.  I did mention to them that they had put me in a vulnerable position having that barrel in my gun in violation of BATF laws.  I'm waiting on the next communication from them and see what the plan is.

DanOh